Sightings "in the wild"

[Ray]

Shrewsbury U.K. , today.

Young chap, mildly androgynous, knee length brown skirt, grey tights, shoes unknown, walking along with two friends, both male, trousered.

I was with two female colleagues. Both were very relaxed aboit what they saw.

Result.

[new2skirts]

Posted on Reddit, bus driver in Brighton in skirted uniform

new-arrival-here-skirt-wearer-for-years-even-at-work-v0-dwwyusmorq1d1.jpeg

[LiuBang]

I mentioned it to my friend up from Long Beach, CA. She says around Los Angleses you see men-in-skirts all the time nothing new there.
-- Brandy

Are you sure they're cisgendered men though? Because here in San Diego, the number of times I've seen a cisgendered man in a skirt is exactly the same number of times I've seen a cisgendered man in a skirt when I lived in Cedar Rapids, Iowa: ZERO.

At my job in Cedar Rapids, I did at first think my colleague might be a cisgendered man in a skirt. From his muscular build, angular face, and deep voice it was clear he'd never had gender reassignment surgery/hormones. His long hair was quite messy. His skirt was a very plain, muted maxi, and he always wore it with a very no-frills T-shirt. He even used the men's restroom. So at first I was confused, until I heard everyone else refer to him as "she."

Also quite possible that all the "men-in-skirts" your friend sees are trans-men.

[Modoc]

I mentioned it to my friend up from Long Beach, CA. She says around Los Angleses you see men-in-skirts all the time nothing new there.
-- Brandy

Are you sure they're cisgendered men though? Because here in San Diego, the number of times I've seen a cisgendered man in a skirt is exactly the same number of times I've seen a cisgendered man in a skirt when I lived in Cedar Rapids, Iowa: ZERO.



Also quite possible that all the "men-in-skirts" your friend sees are trans-men.

I don't know how you can tell if they are "cis-gendered" or not just by looking. I know I couldn't. I try not to assume anything about a person because of the way they are dressed or adorned.

[denimini]

I don't know how you can tell if they are "cis-gendered" or not just by looking. I know I couldn't. I try not to assume anything about a person because of the way they are dressed or adorned.

Quite so. Otherwise we are guilty of what we complain about others doing; to assume things based on little knowledge.

[LiuBang]

I don't know how you can tell if they are "cis-gendered" or not just by looking. I know I couldn't. I try not to assume anything about a person because of the way they are dressed or adorned.

Of course I can't tell with 100% certainty, but in the media there's 10,000x more visibility for trans-woman than cis-men in skirts, so... yeah, a man in a skirt you see in the wild is most probably a trans-woman. Like I said, there are plenty of trans woman (like my colleague) who use the men's bathroom, shun cosmetics, have never taken hormones, and wear a unisex top along with a plain, muted color skirt.

Then again maybe that's my American bias.

[Mouse]

Of course I can't tell with 100% certainty, but in the media there's 10,000x more visibility for trans-woman than cis-men in skirts, so... yeah, a man in a skirt you see in the wild is most probably a trans-woman.
Then again maybe that's my American bias.

I bumped into a person crossing the road in Kensington who was wearing a skirt, they had gold and pink earrings, short hair and a moustache to go with a longish skirt. I didn't assume anything and engaged in conversation by pointing to my own skirt. I guess internally I assumed CIS-man, but I guess women and trans-women are allowed to sport a moustache so who knows. Not that it matters since in a short conversation I told them about skirt cafe assuming they would be interested in a MIS site. However looking back, I may have offended them by making that assumption. I haven't noticed them joining so either they didn't like the cafe or couldn't be bothered, or you are correct and I was talking to a trans-woman who I had just offended.

[Barleymower]

Of course I can't tell with 100% certainty, but in the media there's 10,000x more visibility for trans-woman than cis-men in skirts, so... yeah, a man in a skirt you see in the wild is most probably a trans-woman.
Then again maybe that's my American bias.

I bumped into a person crossing the road in Kensington who was wearing a skirt, they had gold and pink earrings, short hair and a moustache to go with a longish skirt. I didn't assume anything and engaged in conversation by pointing to my own skirt. I guess internally I assumed CIS-man, but I guess women and trans-women are allowed to sport a moustache so who knows. Not that it matters since in a short conversation I told them about skirt cafe assuming they would be interested in a MIS site. However looking back, I may have offended them by making that assumption. I haven't noticed them joining so either they didn't like the cafe or couldn't be bothered, or you are correct and I was talking to a trans-woman who I had just offended.

LB are you sure the MIS you see are trans? Trans women identify as women so as such they are just as likely to wear trousers or even more likely leggings. That being what women generally wear.

Mouse,
I've had the same things run through my mind. By the time I've decided what to do it's too late. So you have to act and decide afterwards whether you made the right choices. If they had a mustache, long hair, a skirt and earrings it only really meant they do not conform to norms and values of society. I doubt they would have been offended. If they are like me they would have been happy to make contact with a like minded person.

[LiuBang]

LB are you sure the MIS you see are trans? Trans women identify as women so as such they are just as likely to wear trousers orneven more likely leggings. That being what women generally wear.

Yes. One of my fellow software devs was a trans-woman, but at first I thought he was a cisgendered man in a skirt. He used the men's restroom. He had a deep voice, a muscular build, and stubble. Always wore a unisex shirt. Skirt was a very plain, simple maxiskirt. Long, messy hair like a male rock star. Zero cosmetics. He very clearly had zero hormones/sex reassignment surgery. But everyone addressed him using only female pronouns, never male pronouns.

[phathack]

When in doubt use Non Binary which is the catch all term for everyone.
Not sure about what pronoun goes with Non Binary, I guess They?

[Barleymower]

LB are you sure the MIS you see are trans? Trans women identify as women so as such they are just as likely to wear trousers orneven more likely leggings. That being what women generally wear.

Yes. One of my fellow software devs was a trans-woman, but at first I thought he was a cisgendered man in a skirt. He used the men's restroom. He had a deep voice, a muscular build, and stubble. Always wore a unisex shirt. Skirt was a very plain, simple maxiskirt. Long, messy hair like a male rock star. Zero cosmetics. He very clearly had zero hormones/sex reassignment surgery. But everyone addressed him using only female pronouns, never male pronouns.

It doesn't matter for whatever reason men choose to dress as they do it's their business. Men have the right to wear whatever they want without judgement. The same rights that are afforded to women. If you want to know their pronouns, ask them.
Don't make assumptions on an entire group based on one person.

[Derek Plattis]

"It doesn't matter for whatever reason men choose to dress as they do it's their business. Men have the right to wear whatever they want without judgement. The same rights that are afforded to women. If you want to know their pronouns, ask them."

Spot on Barleymower!

[crfriend]

I will vote "no" on the pronoun thing. Pronouns are a grammatical construct not a personal preference. They belong to the linguistics of the language.

Yes, "they" is linguistically "correct" in cases where a gender is unknown -- or irrelevant. So be done with it. Stop bending the language with PC BS. Please.

[phathack]

I will vote "no" on the pronoun thing. Pronouns are a grammatical construct not a personal preference. They belong to the linguistics of the language.

Yes, "they" is linguistically "correct" in cases where a gender is unknown -- or irrelevant. So be done with it. Stop bending the language with PC BS. Please.

I just watched a man make the case against pronouns along similar grounds.
His argument is that They and Them are plural terms that have nothing to do with the gender of the induvial involved. Using They/Them to refer to a single induvial would be grammatically incorrect and he refuses to use the English language in such a manner. Until such time as a new non gender specific pronoun enters the English language he will continue to use grammatically correct pronouns like he always has.

[howardfh]

Brighton last week, guy on the top deck wearing a knee-length shirt which matched his ensemble, what pleased me was there were four schoolboys there on that top deck, kinda expected a giggle or something when they saw him, but not a murmor; must be an everyday experience in Brighton (which to be honest probably is)!