The Barbie Movie - misandry of just a bit of fun?

[Barleymower]

Why is BM posting the Barbie movie on the forum? I have a reason - please hear me out.

For me one of the main reasons (apart from liking skirts) I wear skirts is I'm totally bored with the clothing options for men. Since my endeavours began last year I have been much more aware or the general situation men find themselves in.
More and more I see men pushed to the back under the guise of equality. I see men being accused of being toxic or misogynistic just for having an opinion or daring to stand up for ourselves. There exists a double standard in what is acceptable for men and what is acceptable for women.

The Barbie film is a blatant expression of the double standards we see in society. Here is what one reviewer said:

"But my main objection is that Barbie is not really a film about Barbie at all. It’s one hour and 54 minutes of extended misandry, dressed up with a few fun dance routines and one or two (granted fairly decent) jokes.

It’s a deeply anti-man movie, an extension of all that TikTok feminism that paints any form of masculinity — other than the most anodyne — as toxic and predatory, and frames women’s liberation not as a movement based on achieving equality between the sexes but as a cultural revenge vehicle designed to write men out of the story altogether.

Every male character is either an idiot, a bigot or a sad, rather pathetic loser. If the roles were reversed, and a male director made a film about how all women were hysterical, neurotic, gold-digging witches, it would be denounced — quite rightly — as deeply offensive and sexist."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a ... ed-it.html

My questions to the group are:
1. Is this just innocent film fun or is it epitomising acceptable misandry
2. Am I becoming bitter and angry just because society takes the attitude it does to male skirt wearing?
3. Is this even relevant to furthering mens freedom of choice?

The review is not consistent with other reviews. On the whole the film is warmly recieved.

[rivegauche]

It's just a film about a doll. A doll with proportions that are not even feasible in a human female. My suggestion is that we relax about this. I saw a couple of clips of the film and if they are anything to go on this may well be the worst film of all time - there is no way I will give up a couple of hours of my life to sit through this drivel.

The sad reality is that a lot of women encounter men who are sexist bigots. They are out there. Writing them out of films will not make them go away. Barbie showed girls that women can be achievers and why wouldn't Barbie be entitled to an anodyne man (one who does not feature any genitals!) who would not stand in her way. Obviously there are high achieving men who are happy to allow women their own achievements but equally there are still men who place obstacles in the way of women and have their boys' clubs in situations where this is inappropriate such as the workplace.

If we want to be treated fairly by women in relation to what we wear then we need to lead by example and be fair to women at all times. Whining that "it's not fair" that women can choose dresses or trousers and we can only have trousers is not going to change things. When women can feel safe walking down a street at night and when all men who attack women are properly prosecuted then society will be a better place - and that is a more important problem for society than what men wear. When Andrew Tait still has tens thousands of followers women are being denied the respect due to all human beings and until all men play their role in weeding out this misogyny in our society I think we have little right to any high ground over clothing rights. Obviously the two things are not mutually exclusive but let's get this in proportion and - like I say - lead by example. I know one or two members on this site feel they have been mistreated by the women in their lives. Most of us get through life knowing only lovely women - the ones who are not are usually easily avoided. Most of my friends are women and I like it that way - I prefer their company to that of men, and the men I associate with are all men who are similarly comfortable with women and the achievements of women. I don't wear a skirt or dress in day to day interactions but with my skirt wearing and my complete cross-dressing in public I have met some wonderful women and my choice of company when wearing "women's clothes" as in men's clothes, will always be women. Obviously there are many many men who treat women properly but if we insist that there is not a big problem out there with the way a lot of men treat women then we are part of the problem.

The bull-headedness of young men is perpetuated by creeps like Tait. The result is generation after generation with men who are more poorly educated than women and less able to cope with stress - all because learning and talking out your problems are seen as girly and thus inadequate. So this denigration of women is damaging men as well as women. Men are adapting less quickly to the changing workplace and are thus less employable, and men are more likely to commit suicide because they have not formed relationships that would help them cope with stress. This denigration of women by men is damaging men as well as women.

[Stu]

I haven't seen this movie and I have no intention of doing so.

The test for the film would be to imagine the sexes reversed and asked whether the result would be misogynistic. Another test would be to use only black women to play the roles that men now depict and ask whether that would be problematic on racial grounds.

It appears it would fail both of these tests and that makes it an exercise in bigotry.

[FranTastic444]

I feel this film is being taken too literally / too seriously. I haven't seen the film (yet) but my understanding is that it is following in the tradition of a long line of films (and books for that matter) that shine a light on society through caricature, satire and parody. Take the DMV sloth in Zootopia. Take Dr Strangelove or The Office or anything from the Monty Python canon.

Simu Liu has spoken in interviews about how he sees Barbie as the film that "puts the final nail In the coffin of that very heteronormative idea of what gender is”. This is a sentiment that, I think, would strike a chord with many on this forum. Interview here

[Uncle Al]

Who is Valeria Lukyanova? Meet the Real-Life Human Barbie

Uncle Al

[Coder]

It appears it would fail both of these tests and that makes it an exercise in bigotry.

Well - I'm not so sure - we are *very* sensitive nowadays to offending anyone but a straight white male. The problem isn't that we shouldn't make fun of men, it's that we SHOULD be allowed to make jokes/humor about everything under the sun, but people's feelings get hurt, and we create special groups, and so on and so on. I'm not advocating for hate/racism/fear mongering. It's that comedy has taken a back seat to "not offending anyone". Without seeing the film I just can't trust anyone else's take on it - there is too much bias all around, and everyone from left to right is offended by anything they disagree with.

I feel this film is being taken too literally / too seriously.

I suppose it depends on how the message comes across to people, and whether it improves or hurts relationships between men and women, and how it might shape younger generations of kids towards each other.

I think we are going to see different takes on the movie - and it'll split down conservative / liberal lines for the most part. I won't pay to see the movie because, well, it just doesn't interest me either way - but I might see it when it hits streaming so I can form my own opinion.

My guess is, it is anti-male, but then again, the Barbie universe is not a male-centric sphere, so why would anyone expect anything different? I think FranTastic444 hit the nail on the head: don't take it too seriously.

[Barleymower]

Don't get me wrong I have better things to do with my time than queue up for the Barbie booth. Like Coder if it ever reaches Netflix I might take a look.

Looking at Rivegauche's reply everything said by him can equally be applied to men. He is is undeniably biased towards women. This is evident by providing examples like Andrew Tate but neglecting to provide examples of females acting poorly to men. Therefore his reply is biased and unreliable.

"Stu applies legitimate testing to the film and he's right it fails without a doubt. The film is bigoted.
My own view is that saying you should not take something seriously when it is openly bigoted is flawed. Bigotry in all its forms should be address and not laughed off as a bit of fun.

Fantastic444 says:
"Simu Liu has spoken in interviews about how he sees Barbie as the film that "puts the final nail In the coffin of that very heteronormative idea of what gender is”. There is no evidence of this statement,

I'm told roles are swapped but gender is still very much evident. So potentially Simu Liu has no idea what he is talking about.

Coder I agree we all too sensitive. That's fine along as everyone agrees not to be sensitive otherwise we are back where we started

[rivegauche]

Looking at Rivegauche's reply everything said by him can equally be applied to men. He is is undeniably biased towards women. This is evident by providing examples like Andrew Tate but neglecting to provide examples of females acting poorly to men. Therefore his reply is biased and unreliable.

So anyone defending women against male abuse is biased towards women? Wow. Yes, there is some abuse of men by women but it rarely extends to pursuing them in the street or beating them black and blue - or raping or killing them. If you have figures to support the ridiculous assertion that female abuse of men is equivalent to this let's see them.

I am getting tired of the misogyny on this site which is perpetrated by just a few of the members. Getting parity with women over clothing choices should not be sought by abusing women in any form. I will no longer respond to any post that promotes misogyny - I believe it betrays the entire cause of men in skirts as well as being offensive in its own right. I will continue to stand up for women and will not be intimidated by men who can't cope with strong women. If that is bias then I am proud to be biased.

[Paula Proctor]

Hello, I'm new to the skirt cafe and I am a woman. I have seen the Barbie movie. I don't believe you can judge this film without having seen it, or based on one review, especially from the Daily Fail.
In Barbieworld the Kens are peripheral to the Barbies. The Barbies are in charge. Barbie is stunned when she goes to the real world and discovers that she is vilified by young girls and treated badly by men. Ken discovers patriarchy and brings it back to Barbieworld. In the end the Barbies are back in charge and Ken has discovered his own worth separately from Barbie.
Ken doesn't need to be defined in relation to Barbie. As Ken's new sweater says 'I Am Kenough'
This is one of the points of the film I think. Women have been defined in relation to men, not on their own merits. But then, 'truth' has historically been defined through the male lens.
As far as the clothes went, they were what you would expect from Barbie and Ken. But I bet Barbie would think Ken in a skirt is awesome.
And fyi, real world Barbie dolls come in all shapes and sizes these days. My daughter had a chubby Barbie.
And ps, my husband wears skirts. I'm not a random woman who has just shown up to defend women from men who don't like the Barbie movie without having seen it

[Fred in Skirts]

Having seen only a few blurps of the movie I will not be spending .02 to go see it.
I have never been a fan of the Barbie movement from the beginning as I felt it was degrading to women as a whole. No normal woman could naturally grow to those proportions and it caused many women to feel sad that they could not. Some tried to by surgery but many failed so miserably that they took their lives because they ended up looking weird and not normal.
So as far as is the movie good for the views of women or men, only time will tell.

This is just my opinion and your mileage may vary.

[Barleymower]

Hello, I'm new to the skirt cafe and I am a woman. I have seen the Barbie movie. I don't believe you can judge this film without having seen it, or based on one review, especially from the Daily Fail.
In Barbieworld the Kens are peripheral to the Barbies. The Barbies are in charge. Barbie is stunned when she goes to the real world and discovers that she is vilified by young girls and treated badly by men. Ken discovers patriarchy and brings it back to Barbieworld. In the end the Barbies are back in charge and Ken has discovered his own worth separately from Barbie.
Ken doesn't need to be defined in relation to Barbie. As Ken's new sweater says 'I Am Kenough'
This is one of the points of the film I think. Women have been defined in relation to men, not on their own merits. But then, 'truth' has historically been defined through the male lens.
As far as the clothes went, they were what you would expect from Barbie and Ken. But I bet Barbie would think Ken in a skirt is awesome.
And fyi, real world Barbie dolls come in all shapes and sizes these days. My daughter had a chubby Barbie.
And ps, my husband wears skirts. I'm not a random woman who has just shown up to defend women from men who don't like the Barbie movie without having seen it

Hi PP great to read a post from a lady, there are not enough women supporting MIS so from my point of view, you are very welcome indeed. Please keep posting and spread the word!
I can't deny that someone's opinion who has actually taken the time to see the film should take precedent over those who a commenting on something based on hearsay or reviews.
I can't argue with any of the points you put forward as they are well reasoned.
Good for you supporting your husband, the world needs truly unbiased men and women to navigate everyone through these troubled times.

[familyman34]

Hello, I'm new to the skirt cafe and I am a woman. I have seen the Barbie movie. I don't believe you can judge this film without having seen it, or based on one review, especially from the Daily Fail.
In Barbieworld the Kens are peripheral to the Barbies. The Barbies are in charge. Barbie is stunned when she goes to the real world and discovers that she is vilified by young girls and treated badly by men. Ken discovers patriarchy and brings it back to Barbieworld. In the end the Barbies are back in charge and Ken has discovered his own worth separately from Barbie.
Ken doesn't need to be defined in relation to Barbie. As Ken's new sweater says 'I Am Kenough'
This is one of the points of the film I think. Women have been defined in relation to men, not on their own merits. But then, 'truth' has historically been defined through the male lens.
As far as the clothes went, they were what you would expect from Barbie and Ken. But I bet Barbie would think Ken in a skirt is awesome.
And fyi, real world Barbie dolls come in all shapes and sizes these days. My daughter had a chubby Barbie.
And ps, my husband wears skirts. I'm not a random woman who has just shown up to defend women from men who don't like the Barbie movie without having seen it

Hi PP great to read a post from a lady, there are not enough women supporting MIS so from my point of view, you are very welcome indeed. Please keep posting and spread the word!
I can't deny that someone's opinion who has actually taken the time to see the film should take precedent over those who a commenting on something based on hearsay or reviews.
I can't argue with any of the points you put forward as they are well reasoned.
Good for you supporting your husband, the world needs truly unbiased men and women to navigate everyone through these troubled times.

I fully endorse BM's comments above. We certainly need much more input from the female point of view.

[moonshadow]

I've seen the trailer, and I have to admit, it looks like a fun film.

I'm not for sitting in movie theaters, but I can see myself giving it a purchase when it lands on the $5 rack at Walmart... hell, I might even spring $10 for it.

Being born in 1980 and living the entirety of my childhood through second wave feminism and the start of the third wave, I am very well accustomed to the television set telling me I ain't sh!t because of that dangly thing between my legs. It used to kind of bother me, but it is what it is.

I'm not perfect, but I know what I am. I don't need pop culture to validate my existence, God knows they won't do it anyway. I'm on this planet max 80 years, I try not to worry about what society thinks about me, hence my choice to wear skirts and other socially forbidden items.

Put bluntly... I honestly don't give a sh!t.

They want to paint men as bumbling buffoons that can't even manage boil water much less tie their own shoelaces....? It's whatever. I know what I am, and I'll quietly work behind the scenes to do my little part to keep the world spinning on its axis. I live my life for me, not standing ovations from society.

And let's must be frank... if they even THOUGHT about making a movie about men who wear skirts, the Conservative pundits would shut that sh!t down in a hot minute and "cancel" every single brand that got within a light-year of even so much as a HINT of sponsorship. Hell, when you think about it, these kind of movies [Barbie] are all they have left... they can't make movies about anything else anymore lest some massive group of handwringers get their panties in a twist about it....

[Grok]

For me one of the main reasons (apart from liking skirts) I wear skirts is I'm totally bored with the clothing options for men.


2. Am I becoming bitter and angry just because society takes the attitude it does to male skirt wearing?

I became bored with stereotypical male garb back during childhood. (During the 1960s, when females still largely wore skirts/dresses). Never became angry/bitter about the lack of options, though.

[Grok]

I

I'm not perfect, but I know what I am. I don't need pop culture to validate my existence, God knows they won't do it anyway. I'm on this planet max 80 years, I try not to worry about what society thinks about me, hence my choice to wear skirts and other socially forbidden items.

They want to paint men as bumbling buffoons that can't even manage boil water much less tie their own shoelaces....? It's whatever. I know what I am, and I'll quietly work behind the scenes to do my little part to keep the world spinning on its axis. I live my life for me, not standing ovations from society.

these kind of movies [Barbie] are all they have left... they can't make movies about anything else anymore lest some massive group of handwringers get their panties in a twist about it....

I am not personally affected by the negative view of men.

I pay very little attention to pop culture, these days. Seldom watch television any more. Pay little attention to new movies. It's like, what ever....

When the Barbie trailer appeared on my screen, I figured it was for children, specifically little girls. I figure that they got away with casting a white actress, because the doll was a white, if strangely proportioned, woman.

I have no intention of seeing Barbie.

Noticed another trailer. A new movie about Napoleon, it seems. The Napoleonic wars-an era fairly remote in time from the present. Yeah, it is still feasible to set a movie in another historical period.