Will skirts for men finally catch on in Generation Z?

[Myopic Bookworm]

Are you sure about that?
{Bilderberg_meeting}

Ah yes, that non-secret secret organization which manages to be simultaneously promoting free-market Western capitalism and ushering in world communism.

[Coder]

Don't forget the Stone Cutters! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI4bRqjobbw

[crfriend]

The most basic maxim of, "Follow the money" ought to be enough to convince even the dimmest of folks about what's going on in the political spectrum of today.

In (reverse) engineering terms this is known as "black-box analysis". One is confronted with a black box which is entirely and completely opaque and cannot be internally examined in any way conceivable. How does one perform such a feat? One applies controlled observable "inputs" to the "box" and examines the "outputs". Examine them one at a time for long enough, and if they're consistently repeatable one can make inferences as to what's going on inside the box even though it's entirely opaque.

This is not rocket-science, folks. All it take is an inquisitive mind and an attention to detail. No "conspiracy" required, just careful observation over a period of time.

[Tazzmac]

This is a style that I do like ..To me there's a real masculine tough look about a kilt style skirt . I reckon it'd look just as good in denim or cotton drill too ..What do you guys think ?

https://www.for-sale.co.uk/sh-img/leath ... 2Bkilt.jpg.. Cheers

[Dust]

I'm not going to answer all those antifeminist points in detail because I don't know where to start. I am a stay-at-home dad, and have been working part-time from home ever since my wife went back to the office after maternity leave. My wife is highly intellectual and competent, and life as a housewife would not only waste her administrative and academic talents but would drive her insane with boredom. I can't say I find housework intensely fulfilling myself, so why should I expect her to? Am I incapable of instilling values in the next generation because I am a man? I don't have a daughter, but if I did, you can be damn sure I'd be fighting for her to have career and life opportunities equal to those offered to boys. The idea that women had to be enticed out of the home with feminist lies is utterly ludicrous. (Will you be telling me next that the poor should be happy in servitude and that White supremacy is the natural order...)

Consider current events in Afghanistan and Iran, and then tell me that feminism is a lie and a delusion.

I think you are reading what I wrote all wrong...

Society broke when the industrial revolution pulled so many father's out of the home. Dads are needed in kids lives! I applaud stay at home dads! Ideally, both parents would be around as much as possible. Lack of father involvement is correlated to a lot of very bad outcomes in kids' lives, from dropping out of school to ending up in prison. Dads are actually essential for instilling values in the next generation!

Feminism saw working outside the home, rather than a burden and necessary evil in the lives of so many men (tearing them away from their families and children), as something women should want and something to aspire to. Working is a means to an end, a tool used by men to fulfill their responsibilities, not a goal in and of itself. Sometimes it makes sense for wives and mothers to work outside the home. But the latch key kid is nothing to hope for.

Supremacy movements are evil. I don't care which one. Unfortunately, the most prevalent one in society today is feminism, i.e. female supremacy. It's just not recognized for what it is. So I call it out.

I have no problem with more equal treatment of men and women. In fact I pray for it, and work towards it (in part by wearing skirts). The thing is, feminism was never really about equality, despite the propaganda.

There are places in this world where women need help. Western feminists don't give a crap about them, generally. And actually, feminist attitudes are veering towards those of the most oppressive Islamic cultures that you reference.

By asking for, rather than equal responsibility and accountability, special protections and immunity from consequences (while also asking for all the "perks" men get while shouldering those responsibilities, which are actually the tools they use to fulfill them), feminists, if successful, will put women under the protection, and ultimately the control, of men in a way that our society hasn't seen in a very long time. This is actually how many Islamic cultures operate, where even if a woman could provide for herself, her male relatives are required to take care of her. If that means her young son prostituting himself to make money because dad died and he's all that's left, that's what happens.

[Ray]

Dust, I don’t know which fantasy world you live in, although the USA approaches that at times with its goings-on (see “attempts to instal a Speaker of the House”), but in the world in which I inhabit, women -individually and as a whole - just don’t exhibit the behaviours you describe. Overwhelmingly, they just want equality and fairness, having been denied this for centuries. Yes, there are a few outliers, but that’s always the case.

We cannot use the outliers as representative of the whole. Should we use Donald Trump as someone who is representative of ALL American men? That might be a bit extreme, don’t you think?

[Dust]

Feminists are not all women. Not even close. If you think feminism speaks for all women, that's your misunderstanding, not mine.

[Myopic Bookworm]

Feminists are not all women. Not even close.

Of course not. I would identify as a feminist. I do not regard the term as indicating any affinity with a supposed "female supremacy" movement, which I regard as an extreme marginal fringe.

If you think feminism speaks for all women, that's your misunderstanding, not mine.

The "female supremacists" do not speak for all women, but feminism, in the broadest sense, does speak for all of them, even those who reject it. (I am really not concerned with ideological arguments within the women's rights movement between different "waves" of feminism: if you think a broader label is appropriate for those seeking a general equality of opportunity and respect between the sexes, then you are welcome to suggest it.)

The idea that everyone, men and women, can basically live at home and do a bit of work on the side is simply implausible in a modern society. You may yearn to spend the rest of your life within half a mile of your kitchen table, but I would think that a majority of people of both sexes do not. Any society above the level of subsistence agriculture is dependent upon a physical and economic infrastructure which requires that people move: not just industrial employees but merchants, skilled labourers, migrant agricultural workers, hunters and trappers, mercenary soldiers, etc., etc. (There are groups who move and take their work with them, of course, but they have historically been denigrated and persecuted by settled populations.)

(Are you in the USA? You use "feminist" to label an extreme category of ideologues, in the way I am used to hearing Americans use "liberal" or "socialist" as a term of abuse, asserting that all liberals advocate free love, Satan worship, and forced veganism, or that any organized system of social support is "socialist" unless carried out privately by an evangelical Christian church. Where do you get your extraordinarily negative view of feminism? I have heard such a reaction only from extreme trans rights campaigners, expressing resentment of the "terf" [trans-exclusionary radical feminist] position. My views on women's issues, apart from personal experience, are based mainly on overhearing "Women's Hour " on BBC Radio!)

[FLbreezy]

Some media have said that the young men of Generation Z are redefining masculinity. They are breaking with old-school masculinity more than any other generation before. In my opinion, this is becoming increasingly visible in fashion.

I periodically grep (er...search) on reddit for mentions of guys wearing skirts (outside of /r/Menskirts/ where there's more full-on crossdressers than just guys wearing skirts, but I digress).

There seems to be a lot of younger guys interested in wearing skirts and getting mostly supportive comments and encouragement from girls and other guys as well. Sure there's always that one who says "gaaaaay!" or "no way, fam" but the rest are usually in the vein of "you do you" or "guys look good in skirts".

[Coder]

I periodically grep (er...search) on reddit for mentions of guys wearing skirts (outside of /r/Menskirts/ where there's more full-on crossdressers than just guys wearing skirts, but I digress).

That upset me so much I left that sub on Reddit. I'm like, yeah, if you are crossposting to a CD sub, or wearing an ill-fitting wig, or enhancing the chest area, doesn't seem in the spirit of r/Menskirts. r/oldhagfashion, r/malefashion and (more rarely) r/OUTFITS have occasional MIS that have good outfits (that being said, a lot are trans and not MIS).

There seems to be a lot of younger guys interested in wearing skirts and getting mostly supportive comments and encouragement from girls and other guys as well. Sure there's always that one who says "gaaaaay!" or "no way, fam" but the rest are usually in the vein of "you do you" or "guys look good in skirts".

I see that too - but I'd love to see how that correlates to the real world. Reddit's a bit of an echo chamber.

[FLbreezy]

That upset me so much I left that sub on Reddit. I'm like, yeah, if you are crossposting to a CD sub, or wearing an ill-fitting wig, or enhancing the chest area, doesn't seem in the spirit of r/Menskirts. r/oldhagfashion, r/malefashion and (more rarely) r/OUTFITS have occasional MIS that have good outfits (that being said, a lot are trans and not MIS).

I left it too, it's right there in Rule 1 of the sub: "People presenting as men, wearing skirts".** The moderator doesn't really care.
I read r/oldhagfashion too, they seem pretty friendly to MIS and it's educational.

I see that too - but I'd love to see how that correlates to the real world. Reddit's a bit of an echo chamber.

Very true, but the echo has to start somewhere.

** and to be clear, no offence meant to our members here who take things further, I fully support your right to wear/present whatever***/however you want.

*** except for wearing Tr*mp clothing in public, that sh*ts gotta stop.

[Coder]

** and to be clear, no offence meant to our members here who take things further, I fully support your right to wear/present whatever***/however you want.

I have the same thoughts - my frustration is aimed at the fact that rule #1 is constantly broken.

The other problem I had with that sub - it's way too positive. People sometimes post poor fits and people say "looking good girl". First off, I think they did not read rule #1, and secondly, constructive criticism should be welcome. I've asked for it here, and people ask it on other reddit subs, but for some reasons one can't make suggestions because that would be hurtful? Granted, there should be no mean comments, but saying things like "wear the skirt higher/lower, try a different top, etc..." should be par for the course. Men/women helping men figure skirts out.

I guess I'm too stuck in the "normalize skirts for men as menswear (but menswear for men, not menswear for women)*" mindset, and "there should be a viable design language for men wearing skirts that isn't just kilt-inspired**".

*technically we have it TODAY - lots of us wear skirts when out and about, including me when I'm by myself

**I'm not saying I want people to tell me how a MAN should wear a skirt. I'd like some principals to work by which would make choosing outfits easier

[Barleymower]

Some media have said that the young men of Generation Z are redefining masculinity. They are breaking with old-school masculinity more than any other generation before. In my opinion, this is becoming increasingly visible in fashion.

I periodically grep (er...search) on reddit for mentions of guys wearing skirts (outside of /r/Menskirts/ where there's more full-on crossdressers than just guys wearing skirts, but I digress).

There seems to be a lot of younger guys interested in wearing skirts and getting mostly supportive comments and encouragement from girls and other guys as well. Sure there's always that one who says "gaaaaay!" or "no way, fam" but the rest are usually in the vein of "you do you" or "guys look good in skirts".

Until your own partner sees you.
Men on the whole are more straight forward eg 'that's gay mate'. Women like to sit on the fence and move with crowd. Until confronted, then they'll say 'go out like that and I leave you'
Admittedly I have been very lucky will a plucky wife who will grit her teeth and smile, saying 'OK let's go'

[Coder]

Men on the whole are more straight forward eg 'that's gay mate'.

Or awful euphemisms - "don't get your panties in a bunch". I heard that last night watching - please forgive me - "The Expendables 3". Heck, I've even heard my dad asking stuff like, "Is he gay?" in reference to guys who wear colorful outfits. It's laughable (and sad at the same time).

[crfriend]

Until your own partner sees you.
Men on the whole are more straight forward eg 'that's gay mate'. Women like to sit on the fence and move with crowd. Until confronted, then they'll say 'go out like that and I leave you'

Yes, that seems to be the observed state of things. Women are OK with the notion -- on other guys -- but when their man decides to give it a go they can get very, very "anti".

Admittedly I have been very lucky [with] a plucky wife who will grit her teeth and smile, saying 'OK let's go'

You're fortunate. I'm still trying to light off a romance with a woman who has never been ashamed to be seen with me in public and who has stated several times that I look good in what I wear. It's just that there's a whole lot of mess as the moment that I sadly walked into at a bad time.

Here's hoping that your little one recovers from his grandmother's snide crack soon.