The Importance of Punctuation

[Pleats]

A line of text can be interpreted different ways depending on punctuation. One debate is the Oxford Comma. A nice video on the debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptM7Fzy ... nel=TED-Ed

You can even get a t-shirt on the Oxford Comma Preservation Society:

[Sinned]

I tend to not use the Oxford comma but that was the convention when I was at primary school. For me it doesn't matter which you use as long as you are consistent.

[geron]

Despite having spent some happy years in Oxford, I dislike the Oxford comma because it doesn't add to or clarify the meaning. It's just extra clutter.

[alexthebird]

Despite having spent some happy years in Oxford, I dislike the Oxford comma because it doesn't add to or clarify the meaning. It's just extra clutter.

Oh but it does clarify meaning. The classic example is a dedication to "my parents, Sigmund Freud and Queen Elizabeth." Is the writer dedicating his/her work to 4 people (mom, dad, sigmund, and the queen) or 2 people, his mom (Queen Elizabeth) and dad (Sigmund Freud).

There can be real-life consequences as well. I'm quoting from https://thewritelife.com/is-the-oxford-comma-necessary/ but there was a legal case in which a truck drivers union was entitled to overtime with certain exceptions. The exceptions included the activities "...storing, packing for shipment or distribution of..." The company was in the business of distribution and took the position that distribution was a separate activity than packing for shipment and was thus exempt. The drivers said that without the Oxford comma, the exemption only included packing for distribution, not distribution itself, and thus their work was not exempt from OT.

The court found in favor of the drivers and awarded $10 million.

Punctuation counts.

[Sinned]

I will still probably not use it. You've not really convinced me for my normal writing style.

[geron]

In my experience, the Oxford Comma is rarely seen in UK publications -- which is an odd thing if we invented it. I can't find my copy of Eats Shoots and Leaves, but G V Carey's authoritative Mind the Stop (1939, 1958) argues against it except in cases where there's a real risk of ambiguity, and Gowers' Plain Words (1954) isn't keen on it but notes that its use seemed to be increasing. He may have been wrong about that, at least in UK usage.

Alex's example of a legal decision is a US one. The case might have gone the other way in the UK, where legal draughtsmen seem to avoid punctuation almost entirely. But that may be changing too:
https://www.onhandcounsel.co.uk/growing ... ut-commas/

I think the real problem is that the comma implies a micro-pause in speech or a change in the intonation heard inside your head, and the Oxford Comma tends to place one where it wouldn't occur in speaking aloud.

[Uncle Al]

I'm now the proud owner, in paperback, of "Eats, Shoots and Leaves"

Eats, Shoots & Leaves JPG 2022-05-19.jpg

Will start reading in this weekend

Uncle Al

[crfriend]

I'm now the proud owner, in paperback, of "Eats, Shoots and Leaves"

You're going to love it. I've got a hard-cover version that I keep close track of.

[rivegauche]

I have a whole stack of these books. I am a fan of the Oxford comma and I write a lot. Editors have commented on it but it has never been edited out. Many years ago I read a particularly good example involving a Doctor and a woman next door, and the comma made a huge difference to the nature of his interaction with this woman - I wish I still had that story.

[RADIATE]

I tend to laugh at the grammar Nazis. You knew what I meant, & minor errors in punctuation do not change the content.
Not everyone agrees, particularly in the legal world.
Have to laugh at the Ten-Million-Dollar comma.
https://johnsonwebbert.com/news/a-few-w ... ial-comma/

[r.m.anderson]

Would you be using the COMMA in your text messaging ?

[geron]

I tend to laugh at the grammar Nazis. You knew what I meant, & minor errors in punctuation do not change the content.

That may be true, but the function of a subeditor or copy editor is to give the reader as smooth a ride as possible by eliminating distractions such as inconsistent spelling and capitalization and, er, erratic punctuation. It's one of those things that you don't notice when it's been done well.

[Faldaguy]

I stumbled across this last night when looking at info on Quinceaneras, (15th birthday celebration, coming out, for girls in Latin traditions) I'm pretty sure it is not quite what they meant -- but, hey -- maybe the world is changing!

"Young men should be dressed in a sports coat, tie, dress pants, and freshly polished dress shoes. However, if the quinceañera is occurring during the late afternoon or evening, dressing up a bit more is recommended. A knee-length or modest mini-dress and a pair of cute (yet comfortable) heels make an ideal ensemble.Sep 27, 2021"

[crfriend]

I stumbled across this last night when looking at info on Quinceaneras, (15th birthday celebration, coming out, for girls in Latin traditions) I'm pretty sure it is not quite what they meant -- but, hey -- maybe the world is changing!

This topic got quite the writeup in the local Worcester (MA/USA) paper several years ago, and it parallels the "debut" of WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) girls quite handily, but a wee bit earlier. "Coming out" in this sense, has nothing to do whatsoever with what the term "means" today; it's merely the time when the young woman makes her debut onto the "adult" scene.

"Young men should be dressed in a sports coat, tie, dress pants, and freshly polished dress shoes. However, if the quinceañera is occurring during the late afternoon or evening, dressing up a bit more is recommended. A knee-length or modest mini-dress and a pair of cute (yet comfortable) heels make an ideal ensemble.Sep 27, 2021"

Keep the boys in their place because this is a time for the girl to shine. It is what it is.

Note that there is no such rite of passage for boys.

[Uncle Al]

<snip> it parallels the "debut" of WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) girls quite handily, but a wee bit earlier.
"Coming out" in this sense, has nothing to do whatsoever with what the term "means" today; it's merely the time
when the young woman makes her debut onto the "adult" scene.<snip>

With my Aviation background, I immediately thought WASP = Women's Airforce Service Pilots, organized during World War II as
part of the US Army Air Forces to ferry aircraft and to test new aircraft. The organization was disbanded in 1944.

So, depending upon the context or how the acronym is used, WASP has several definitions.

Just my $.02 worth

Uncle Al