The Sydney Morning Herald: Is the Australian men’s market ready for skirts yet?

[Coder]

https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/fashio ... 593pe.html

Did someone here write this?

[Sinned]

No, the narrative doesn't go far enough and it concentrates mainly upon the fashion of the up and coming celebrities not everyday wear. I say up and coming because to me they are fringe celebrities as I have not really heard of any of them and have no idea what their place is in the celebrity circus. Also the dresses/skirts worn are nothing like what would appear upon the streets for everyday wear. While it can't do any real harm, whether any of this will impinge upon the consciousness of the average person as candidates for wearing in the street is debatable but other things might.

[Coder]

While the author DOES highlight some of these outspoken celebrity styles, she also ends with:

The stereotypes and social expectations that constrain the sartorial choices of the average bloke on the street are tighter. Whereas women in masculine clothing are considered strong and sexy, for a man to dress with femininity is seen as a relinquishing of power. It all comes down to good old-fashioned sexism. What is male is to be aspired to, and what is female is to be derided. For a boy to be called a girl, according to schoolyard lore, is often the worst possible thing.

There is a generational shift happening, however. More young people feel confident to push back against the binary and to define not just fashion but gender in more fluid terms. With this comes a willingness by more men and boys to play with clothes. To have fun with them, to dress up because it is joyous, and to wear clothes that affirm their sense of self and identity. This steadily growing refusal to conform can only be a good thing for fashion, for men, and for boys like mine.

I've certainly seen many here come to the same conclusions as the first paragraph, and the second - I don't think you can escape fluidism. Too many people are pushing it, it's in vogue in the liberal media.

Back to the first paragraph - I distinctly remember as a kid other boys calling other boys a "girl" as a pejorative. While I didn't hang out with girls, I never heard the opposite ever said to other girls. Gross/disgusting? Yes, but those were used to describe boys, but being a "boy" wasn't a bad thing in and of itself.

[Sinned]

Yeah, that does cover some of our aims. In two paragraphs.

[Stu]

I distinctly remember as a kid other boys calling other boys a "girl" as a pejorative. While I didn't hang out with girls, I never heard the opposite ever said to other girls. Gross/disgusting? Yes, but those were used to describe boys, but being a "boy" wasn't a bad thing in and of itself.

There is a reason for this which is evolutionary rather than our modern idea of sexist prejudices against females. Going back to the Palaeolithic and up to the relatively recently in our history, children of both sexes were raised predominantly by their mothers. As with other primates, the hope was they would reach an age when they would start to migrate away from their mothers and sisters and start to take an interest in what their fathers and brothers were doing. The tribe didn't need boys who were feminine - on the one hand they couldn't have babies and on the other they weren't much use in physical activities like combat or hunting large game. So they were defenders and providers, or else they were useless and a boy exhibiting feminine traits was a red flag to our ancestors. This has carried through to the modern age and still women generally and instinctively prefer males with masculine traits and they look to men to protect them and to provide for them and their children, especially when they are fulfilling their natural biological roles of pregnancy, childbirth and nursing, when they cannot fend for themselves.

Incidentally, in later times, both combat and hunting often involved horse riding and that is something which is more efficiently carried out wearing trousers than skirts.

[Stu]

Also the dresses/skirts worn are nothing like what would appear upon the streets for everyday wear. While it can't do any real harm, whether any of this will impinge upon the consciousness of the average person as candidates for wearing in the street is debatable but other things might.

Sorry, but I have to agree with you. We have seen this kind of impractical and unwearable "high fashion" several times before, but it never seems to translate into even simple garments like denim skirts or a skirt option with a suit for male customers in mainstream stores.

And yet it couldn't be simpler for the retailers of menswear. Just select a couple for lines of skirts marketed for women, try them on some male models. If they fit and look OK, market them as unisex or menswear, and then label them accordingly. If a store did that, it would be a gamble. They would certainly gain free publicity, but would they risk ridicule.

One day, it will happen. But the public would need to be ready for it and the big distributors know this.

[Coder]

Also the dresses/skirts worn are nothing like what would appear upon the streets for everyday wear. While it can't do any real harm, whether any of this will impinge upon the consciousness of the average person as candidates for wearing in the street is debatable but other things might.

Sorry, but I have to agree with you. We have seen this kind of impractical and unwearable "high fashion" several times before, but it never seems to translate into even simple garments like denim skirts or a skirt option with a suit for male customers in mainstream stores.

I often fear the more outlandish outfits have the opposite effect, as a lightning rod for ridicule. Look at popular (and hilarious) movies like Zoolander, which poked fun at the fashion industry.

[Sinned]

Wow! Stu and I agreeing. No seriously I may disagree with some of the things that Stu has posted but I hope that were we to meet in meat space we would find more to agree on than disagree.

As to the thread title, I don't really know whether AUSTRALIAN men are ready for skirts, not having even visited the place. I assume that each city has its own flavour and inhabitants different characteristics which would mean acceptance would vary. Also Australian men have an outward veneer of the "Crocodile Dundee" but with softer centre. The weather is hotter which would predispose skirts. So, I don't know. Maybe some input from our Ozzy friends?

[denimini]

No.

Not even that silly example of pants under a skirt.

I really don't care as I am more interested in people having the freedom and confidence to wear what ever they like. A change in fashion does not help with that as it just creates a different convention, which can be OK if it suits what we like to wear but still stigmatises others.

[Grok]

As I recall, Stu's marketing ploy was discussed awhile back. Perhaps a skirt that has been marketed towards larger women could be adapted. Note-if you want to sell to men decent pockets will be desirable.

If the basic garment is already commercially viable with women, that might provide insurance against failure. We have seen attempts at MIS come and go over the years.

[rivegauche]

A few years ago some newspaper ran a story about the new skirt suit for men and they were deluged with inquiries for more information. It was an April Fool, but it just shows the interest is out there. I feel that making this breakthrough is simply a matter of getting the marketing right. I the 1970s we wore what were basically high-heels but with a big blocky heel and the New Romantic wore frilly blouses. A lot of men have fabulous legs and getting them out there might appeal to women which would make the whole process so much easier.

[Sinned]

rivegauche, I think I remember that stunt. While it appears that the interest is there I wonder how many men wear skirts ( or more ) indoors but, for whatever reason, are, not just reticent but, really afraid to wear a skirt in public. It is this latency that needs to be translated into action. Seeing others out skirted helps but sometimes I think that the fear is so deeply entrenched, almost to a level of a true phobia, that it will take a seismic event to overcome it. Grrrr.