It reminds me of some discussions during lockdown. One day some men were complaining about the lockdown so I asked them what they would do normaly during the evening. The answer: watch TV. When asked so what than is your problem they looked as if they saw water burning. Next they said, you are right, there is no reason to complain.rode_kater wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:32 pmThis reminds me of a moment near the beginning of the pandemic when the initial information was: 90% of cases are mild. And I'm thinking "that doesn't sound bad". Followed by: "mild" means "did not end up in hospital" and I'm like WTF!Gusto10 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:05 pmCoder wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:28 pm Here's a good article on Slate about COVID and vaccinated folk:
https://slate.com/technology/2021/07/co ... cases.html
From the beginning there were doubts whether a vaccine would help with transmissibility. The story was that the virus can replicate in the throat away from the blood stream and so away from easy access by your immune system. So if Delta replicates so fast chances are vaccination won't help much at all on that front.
But, if vaccines stop you ending up in hospital then it ceases to be the government's problem and it becomes personal responsibility. Influenza is also pretty nasty, but we accept it and continue.
However, for me the situation is more like this:
So I think I'm pretty safe.
Covid 19
Re: Covid 19
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Re: Covid 19
The difference is whether the bars are closed and locked or the gate is open. It's still a jail cell. The difference is that if the gate is unlocked you can get out.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
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Re: Covid 19
Carl's response is good, but I'd also call your attention to the fact that many people do other things during the day other than watch TV.Gusto10 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:19 pm It reminds me of some discussions during lockdown. One day some men were complaining about the lockdown so I asked them what they would do normaly during the evening. The answer: watch TV. When asked so what than is your problem they looked as if they saw water burning. Next they said, you are right, there is no reason to complain.
Lock downs disrupt life substantially, and if that wasn't true, then life wouldn't have been disrupted thusly in 2020.
Yes people watch TV, but that's not all they do. Speaking for myself, I go out somewhere daily, always interacting and being among other people. We like parks, strolling through antique stores, window shopping, biking, eating out, going to festivals, talking to neighbors, etc.
We don't just "watch TV" constantly. And I for one don't want the government telling me when I'm allowed to leave my house. I became an adult 22 years ago, and my days of being "grounded" are long behind me.
These constant threats of lock downs, mask mandates and other covid restrictions are really bringing out the worst in people, it's spilling over into other matters and generally making life lousy for everyone. Crime is up, anger has skyrocketed, you can't have a pleasant conversation hardly anymore without someone going into a tirade over something, depression is high, anxiety, not to mention the hyper inflation we're seeing due to global supply chain disruptions, record unemployment ironically at the same time we have record labor shortages... it goes on and on and on.
No. Enough is enough.
I'm at the place now where if one still refuses to vaccinate, let that person chance it. No more games. But I'm not going to mask up anymore to protect people who just want to be a stick in the mud about everything.
If I am an asymptomatic carrier that causes an unvaccinated person to get sick and die, well, what can I say?. That person should have gotten the shot. I WON'T allow myself to feel to feel GUILTY because of life choices that OTHERS made.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
Re: Covid 19
In my opinion a real lockdown is the experienced by my parents during WW2 in order to escape the Germans who were seeking my father out due to his age at that time. Sitting in a cellar, hiding between cabbage, Going on a bike from one side of the country to the other to get food for ones elders and trying not to get caught by the Germans; etc. That, dear Moon, is a lockdown. Not if you can go to markets, visit friends etc. Wearing mask is a small price to pay. Especcially if you bear in mind that the seasonal winter flue was absent. That is why in the Far East wearing a mask is mandatory as soon as you have a cold. To stop spreading that "simple" corona virus.moonshadow wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:13 pmCarl's response is good, but I'd also call your attention to the fact that many people do other things during the day other than watch TV.Gusto10 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:19 pm It reminds me of some discussions during lockdown. One day some men were complaining about the lockdown so I asked them what they would do normaly during the evening. The answer: watch TV. When asked so what than is your problem they looked as if they saw water burning. Next they said, you are right, there is no reason to complain.
Lock downs disrupt life substantially, and if that wasn't true, then life wouldn't have been disrupted thusly in 2020.
Yes people watch TV, but that's not all they do. Speaking for myself, I go out somewhere daily, always interacting and being among other people. We like parks, strolling through antique stores, window shopping, biking, eating out, going to festivals, talking to neighbors, etc.
We don't just "watch TV" constantly. And I for one don't want the government telling me when I'm allowed to leave my house. I became an adult 22 years ago, and my days of being "grounded" are long behind me.
These constant threats of lock downs, mask mandates and other covid restrictions are really bringing out the worst in people, it's spilling over into other matters and generally making life lousy for everyone. Crime is up, anger has skyrocketed, you can't have a pleasant conversation hardly anymore without someone going into a tirade over something, depression is high, anxiety, not to mention the hyper inflation we're seeing due to global supply chain disruptions, record unemployment ironically at the same time we have record labor shortages... it goes on and on and on.
No. Enough is enough.
I'm at the place now where if one still refuses to vaccinate, let that person chance it. No more games. But I'm not going to mask up anymore to protect people who just want to be a stick in the mud about everything.
If I am an asymptomatic carrier that causes an unvaccinated person to get sick and die, well, what can I say?. That person should have gotten the shot. I WON'T allow myself to feel to feel GUILTY because of life choices that OTHERS made.
Just on the news I heard that the effectivity of the Pfizer "vaccin" (it doesn't comply with the definition of vaccin given by the CDC), decreases to 60% in four months. So each new jab will increase the chance of bloodclots forming especially with people in poor health and overweight. Thus my thoughts on preference would be: ensuring a good health, a good BMI, eating fresh produce not cleaned in chlorinated water as is custom in the US, no canned food, proper home cooking. If I would catch the bug than my preference goes out to invermectin treatment.
From the documents in the NIH library I learned that natural anti bodies against SARS are gone after 2 to 3 years.
In the scientiofic reports on the present virus dated Nov 9, 2019, by amongst others Peter Daszak, one of the WHO investigators, its indicated that the virulent virus in humanised mice was virulent and nothing was found to stop it. At about the same time researcher were admitted to hospital with an unknown long infection. Than there would be a vaccin found in two months. A trial for vaccins lasts about 20 years. The Neurenberg treaty prohibits mass use of medication during trial periods.
IF Nobel laureate Luc Montagnier, who discovered HIV, is correct, as presented in an interview on CNews (in French but undertiteld in English) than the present virus consists of SARS plus a minute portion of HIV. I guess no further explanation is needed. That exxplains why according to an Israelian specialist a HIV medication also helps to treat those who contracted Covid-19.
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Re: Covid 19
There is no need to patronize me dear Gusto. I know what a wartime lockdown is, I also know that covid is not causing bombs to fall from the sky.Gusto10 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:06 pm my opinion a real lockdown is the experienced by my parents during WW2 in order to escape the Germans who were seeking my father out due to his age at that time. Sitting in a cellar, hiding between cabbage, Going on a bike from one side of the country to the other to get food for ones elders and trying not to get caught by the Germans; etc. That, dear Moon, is a lockdown
You're comparing apples to oranges. If my movement is being restricted, I am "locked down".
lock·down
/ˈläkdoun/
Learn to pronounce
nounNORTH AMERICAN
the confining of prisoners to their cells, typically after an escape or to regain control during a riot.
"the lockdown has been in effect since October 1983"
a state of isolation or restricted access instituted as a security measure.
"the university is on lockdown and nobody has been able to leave"
Just think, if we could have hit that vaccination target, we likely wouldn't even need to consider booster shots because this thing would be largely licked by now.Gusto10 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:06 pm Just on the news I heard that the effectivity of the Pfizer "vaccin" (it doesn't comply with the definition of vaccin given by the CDC), decreases to 60% in four months. So each new jab will increase the chance of bloodclots forming especially with people in poor health and overweight.
But no... there's always got to be "those people".
Fine, live the rest of your days begging the government for permission to go to the store, or work, or visit family and friends, cover your face forever, feel free to forget what human contact actually feels like. Stay in the basement... where it's safe.
Not me. I'm not going to live my life in fear. If I catch it and die, then I die, if I survive then I guess I've got another one done and dusted. But I'm NOT going out of my way to protect people who clearly don't give a crap about ending this pandemic.
This is politics. I refuse to play the game.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
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Re: Covid 19
Enough!
Don't bother conflating the general physical health of the population with the novel coronavirus -- that's just FUD, pure and simple. Of course a fit population will be more resilient in the face of biological threat, but we cannot change that in the term required to deal with the epidemic. We are constrained to use the tools that we have, or can develop in the short term.
Don't bother conflating the general physical health of the population with the novel coronavirus -- that's just FUD, pure and simple. Of course a fit population will be more resilient in the face of biological threat, but we cannot change that in the term required to deal with the epidemic. We are constrained to use the tools that we have, or can develop in the short term.
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Re: Covid 19
What's going to wind up happening is as people continue to refuse to vaccinate and take measures to eliminate the virus, mutations will persist to the point the vaccines currently developed will be useless, and we'll be right back to square one.
Just in time for a regime change in 3.5 years where promises will be made, none are kept, the the tables flip and the other half of the population refuses to cooperate.
Lather rinse repeat...
I intend to live my life until I'm struck down.
Just in time for a regime change in 3.5 years where promises will be made, none are kept, the the tables flip and the other half of the population refuses to cooperate.
Lather rinse repeat...
Indeed.
I intend to live my life until I'm struck down.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
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Re: Covid 19
I'm hoping that Uncle Chuck will have things sorted out by then.moonshadow wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:33 pmWhat's going to wind up happening is as people continue to refuse to vaccinate and take measures to eliminate the virus, mutations will persist to the point the vaccines currently developed will be useless, and we'll be right back to square one.
Ditto.I intend to live my life until I'm struck down.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
Re: Covid 19
Gusto10, if you don't want the vaccine then don't - it's your right. But what you are saying is obviously running counter to the general feelings of those on this forum. You seem to have very few in agreement with you. You are also dangerously close to getting this thread locked. Learn when to give up and keep your mouth shut - what you are saying is falling on stony ground.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Covid 19
And just for the record, I know it's been mentioned that elsewhere around the world they [the government] can't FORCE you to take a vaccine, in the U.S. the Supreme Court has already decided this issue:
Jacobson v. Massachusetts
For those who don't want to read the article, let me sum it up: Yes, a governing body in the United States can mandate vaccines to its citizens.
Now whether that's a good idea in the current political climate is up for debate, but the ruling is clear, and this has been settled 116 years ago.
Personally, I agree with Ray, those who refuse to vaccinate should be at the back of the healthcare line when covid strikes. Now that likely won't abide in the for profit health care system here stateside, BUT, this is where insurance companies hold the cards...
You refuse to vaccinate, your covid treatment is not covered by insurance, private or socialist (Medicare/Medicaid)
Jacobson v. Massachusetts
For those who don't want to read the article, let me sum it up: Yes, a governing body in the United States can mandate vaccines to its citizens.
Now whether that's a good idea in the current political climate is up for debate, but the ruling is clear, and this has been settled 116 years ago.
Personally, I agree with Ray, those who refuse to vaccinate should be at the back of the healthcare line when covid strikes. Now that likely won't abide in the for profit health care system here stateside, BUT, this is where insurance companies hold the cards...
You refuse to vaccinate, your covid treatment is not covered by insurance, private or socialist (Medicare/Medicaid)
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
Re: Covid 19
Sinned, I'm fully aware of the sentiments, don't worry. I was asked to motivate my thoughts which I did with great hesistance considering the qualificaties of my thoughts in an earlier stage. As explained I haven't taken hollow frases of wappies into consideration. During the illness of my late ex, I have learned to shift through medical information, to learn what is and what isn't experimental. I chatted with many specialists at my favourite wateringhole (something similar to the Travelers in London, UK) to get a better understanding. Yes I'm curious and I hoped that others would be as curious or that their curiosity would be triggered also, but such to no avail.Sinned wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:22 pm Gusto10, if you don't want the vaccine then don't - it's your right. But what you are saying is obviously running counter to the general feelings of those on this forum. You seem to have very few in agreement with you. You are also dangerously close to getting this thread locked. Learn when to give up and keep your mouth shut - what you are saying is falling on stony ground.
May I pose a small question? Why is to sociably acceptable to oppose masks and lockdowns while those measures of a temporary nauture and not to question (moral) obliged vaccination with a lasting effect while the goal is the same: reduce the spread of the bug.
Re: Covid 19
I would argue that the opposition to lockdowns and masks is not socially acceptable because of the increased danger of cross-infection by ignoring them. I'm not sure why you would assume otherwise. Further my answer would be that the vaccine, whilst fast-tracked through its development cycle, was based on the analysis and identification of the specific proteins that needed to be targetted. That in itself was based on years of research into other covid viruses providing the expertise and resources for the fast development. Twenty years ago it wouldn't have been possible but now it is. The chances are that this will be the blueprint for the treatment of any future viruses. But as no vaccine is 100% effective and side-effects will be inevitable the risks of them must be balanced against its benefits for the population as a whole.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
Re: Covid 19
OK - - - - After a couple of phone calls, and a nights sleep,
I've calmed down a bit.......BUT
MOD HAT - ON
When is everyone here going to stop playing the "Arm-Chair Quarter Back"
Each Cafe' member has his/her own beliefs and thoughts on C-19.
That's THEIR CHOICE YOU can't decide what is best for them
Read the info at hand - Make your own decision
As Carl said ENOUGH
At this point in time, the "Arm-Chair Quarter Back" players
are being BENCHED - pulled from the game
GAME OVER
As previously stated above, after the phone conversations,
the Admin Staff has agreed -
THIS THREAD WILL BE LOCKED
MOD HAT - OFF
Uncle Al
I've calmed down a bit.......BUT
MOD HAT - ON
When is everyone here going to stop playing the "Arm-Chair Quarter Back"
Each Cafe' member has his/her own beliefs and thoughts on C-19.
That's THEIR CHOICE YOU can't decide what is best for them
Read the info at hand - Make your own decision
As Carl said ENOUGH
At this point in time, the "Arm-Chair Quarter Back" players
are being BENCHED - pulled from the game
GAME OVER
As previously stated above, after the phone conversations,
the Admin Staff has agreed -
THIS THREAD WILL BE LOCKED
MOD HAT - OFF
Uncle Al
Kilted Organist/Musician
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)