Rethinking Lingerie....

[rivegauche]

I don't think anyone here is objecting to men wearing feminine clothing, or rather clothing 'normally' associated with women which has ornament such as frills and lace. The OP asked if this site was going to help break down gender barriers over clothing. My own thoughts are not, for the reasons I outlined in my previous post, but good luck to them and I applaud any attempt to blur the boundaries.

As a crossdresser who wears exactly the same clothes as a woman would, but at the pared-down end of the ornament scale, I seem to be in a very narrow category. My underwear and my dresses may be cut in a way that suits the female body (and by some quirk also suits mine - with the obvious addition of breast forms) - I avoid all frills, flounces and lace where I can. Men who enjoy dressing and acting as women without identifying as women seem to be quite rare. I have had my colour and styling analysed when dressed as a woman and I was categorised as a 'natural classic'. A female NC would be advised to avoid frills and flounces on skirts, dresses and tops anyway, so part of my preferences are probably related to my own gender identification and part to my clothing personality. If other men want to wear frilly and lace -trimmed clothing then that is fine with me, I just don't want them to go on and on about it. I would no more ask a man what colour of undies he is wearing than I would ask a random woman in the street - THAT is the bizarre behaviour - not what they are wearing.

A large number of men on crossdressing sites wear women's trousers. Granted, some women's trousers are made from softer, more comfortable fabrics, but what matters to these guys (or women if that is how they identify) is that they are WOMEN'S trousers - that is their primary criterion. To them the gender label is more important than any aspect of the actual garment. I own a few pairs of women's trousers - all in materials that are denied men - but I don't wear them. For me it is about skirts and dresses which seems to be the main preference on this site and long may it continue. I am all for discussing the concept of what is worn underneath from time to time as long as it does not become a main topic - there is a difference between discussing this as a concept and regaling the masses with details of what we are wearing underneath or - perish the thought - requesting details of what others are wearing underneath.

The more blurring of clothing boundaries there is the better, but I think making garments that are overtly feminine via frills, flounces and lace is not exactly entry level territory. Currently making a skirt and labelling it a 'man skirt' seems to be less about blurring gender boundaries than serving as an excuse to triple the price. We have occasionally had the likes of H&M marketing skirts to men and Top Man selling sarongs, but it never went mainstream. We need more male public figures wearing skirts every day without going down the gender fluid route. It is seen occasionally in men like Harry Styles but it needs to become more frequent before there is a spill-over into the real world. There is probably a trigger percentage out there - possibly as low as 2% - but we are probably at around 0.1% at present, if that, so there is some way to go. Every time one of us goes out in a skirt we make it easier for the next guy to go out in a skirt - we all know this.

[Sinned]

I wear garments of any type sold on the other side of the aisle and I wear garments from our side of the aisle. I mix and match as I see fit. I'll leave it up to you to make any inferences. My wife has an inconsistent view of what I wear. Women's tops/trousers/otherwear without complaint and will readily buy them for me. But skirts ( she has bought them for me in the past ) seem to be in a category of their own. Also she has given me some of her own dresses that she can't or would no longer wear ( but that was a year or two ago ) but I don't have the confidence of her current acceptance so don't wear them. Just on the site quoted at the beginning, no, I wouldn't be interested. I think that we should call a halt on this thread.

[moonshadow]

This discussion makes me wonder... do many people actually wear lingerie as actual underwear [as in, under their normal clothes], because when I think of such items, I always imagined they were more or less for adult carnal pleasures, and not normally worn under clothes.

I can't see many of the garments holding up to the wear and tear of actual life in the real world (under normal clothes).

When you think about it, underwear takes a lot of abuse day by day.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, could lingerie even really be considered underwear?

I dunno... just me thinking out loud.

You're probably right Sinned, we'd likely be better served to nix this thread.

[STEVIE]

You're probably right Sinned, we'd likely be better served to nix this thread.

It is all pants anyway and lingerieing around will only lead to more bloomers.
If that doesn't get this thread locked then I give up.
Steve.

[Gusto10]

"Freestyle Fashions
Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing".

Previous discussions on underwear were cut short. Why again? Trying to broden the scope of the forum again?

[Wiggy]

"do many people actually wear lingerie as actual underwear [as in, under their normal clothes]"

Yes, me!
The majority of my underwear is from the "other side of the ailse", mainly in high leg or midi. Plain, patterned, lace, I've got them all.
My wife has even passed some of hers to me which sh no longer wears.

Why do I wear them?
Because they are comfortable and I can!

[STEVIE]

If that doesn't get this thread locked then I give up.

If this was seen as anything other than "tongue firmly in cheek", I apologise.
I just wouldn't like the thought of anyone contorting their intimate items because of my feeble attempts at some levity.
And once more, with feeling;
If that doesn't get this thread locked then I give up.

Steve.

[moonshadow]

This thread is like that episode of Seinfeld where Kramer took a car for a test drive where he and the dealer wanted to see how far they could go with the fuel gauge below the "E"...

Steve, I don't know if you'll get the thread locked now... but I think I hear that knocking sound right before it's about to die...

*Pokes Carl with a stick*...

"Is he asleep?"

"I can't tell!"

"Well, his eyes are closed..."

"He's faking...".

[crfriend]

"He's not breathing."

"He's faking!"

[STEVIE]

Never mind the frilly stuff, the humour alone is a perfectly valid one for humane euthanasia to be applied in this case.
Personally Moon, the knocking sound can only mean a one way trip to the junk yard.
Beyond Redemption is my prognosis and I will now rest my case with sincerest apologies to the Mod. Team.
Steve.

[renesm1]

I noticed that Tommy Hilfiger (remember them when they DIDN"T sell men's skirts 20 years ago?) is now selling unisex underwear.

Here is the link https://uk.tommy.com/tommyxindya-bralette-uw0uw03652ybr

I had to have a close look at I think on the balance of probabilities that is a man in a bralette.

[rode_kater]

Here is the link https://uk.tommy.com/tommyxindya-bralette-uw0uw03652ybr

I had to have a close look at I think on the balance of probabilities that is a man in a bralette.

It is, the giveaway is the Adam's apple.

[jamodu]

Pink BIC ‘Women’s’ razors cost more to buy than Blue BIC ‘Men’s’ razors. Ridiculous.

(Long ago, I persuaded my Wife to buy/use a Men’s Philips Battery Rotary Razor on her facial hair. she uses it daily. Philips could make a fortune by producing a Pink Coloured version).

Men’s Tights/Pantyhose cost more to buy than the Female equivalent.

Moot and HommeMystere Male Lingerie costs significantly more to buy than Female Lingerie.

For me, I always buy such proportionately-sized items from the other side of the isle. There’s much more choice, and is appropriate for the many Skirts and Dresses that I wear.

[r.m.anderson]

Pink BIC ‘Women’s’ razors cost more to buy than Blue BIC ‘Men’s’ razors. Ridiculous.

(Long ago, I persuaded my Wife to buy/use a Men’s Philips Battery Rotary Razor on her facial hair. she uses it daily. Philips could make a fortune by producing a Pink Coloured version).

Men’s Tights/Pantyhose cost more to buy than the Female equivalent.

Moot and HommeMystere Male Lingerie costs significantly more to buy than Female Lingerie.

For me, I always buy such proportionately-sized items from the other side of the isle. There’s much more choice, and is appropriate for the many Skirts and Dresses that I wear.

xxxxx
Ya change the color or tweak the shape and inflate the price - works both ways in the retail world - - -
Women can use men's shavers all types -
Men can wear women's lingerie - ahem some better than others not an exact perfect science (i.e. thongs don't replace j-straps)

People people check out the alternatives - - -
And what is the concern wearing unmentionables which are unseeables - unless an exhibitionist attention activity is at play !

[Ralph]

Years ago a (female) friend showed up wearing a light jacket that I liked a lot. It was just the right weight to keep out the wind on a cool-but-not-cold day, a silky polyester microfibre that felt nice against the skin, pullover style so there were no buttons or zippers to worry about, and nice deep pockets.

I looked it up on the company's website, and found they had an identical version for men and women - with the trivial exceptions being zippers on the pockets of the women's version, and a drawstring waist for women vs. a ribbed cuff waist for the men. I think the women's version had a wider variety of colours, too.

Now I know when two items are identical a lot of my brothers have a strong preference to buy the one that has a "women's" label on it, just for the psychological boost, and I've no quarrel with that. Personally don't care: If it serves the intended purpose well, fits well, feels comfortable, and (least important) is pleasing to my eye, it makes no difference to me who the intended market was. However, there was one other difference between the two styles: The women's version was literally half the price of the men's version. WHY???