WE are doomed!!!

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Re: WE are doomed!!!

Postby beachlion » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:15 pm

Daryl wrote:...... Per capita is meaningless. Perhaps Europeans drive less, or don't even own cars as frequently. The stat would only be revealing if it were 1/3 of fatalities per mile compared to USA, but then Europeans use kilometres so even that wouldn't work. 8)


When you count the fatalities per driven distance, the figures are in the same bracket. The traffic is much more intense in Europe and the drivers in general are less social. But it also pays off to have a good maintained road system and predictable lay-out. And the signage is less confusing. At least that is my conclusion after 50 year of driving in (mostly) western Europe and about 15 times around the equator (car, motorbike and bicycle combined) and 10 years in the USA. Zoom in on Google Earth and see the difference.

With the economy improving and the communistic system gone for the eastern European countries, the numbers for Europe have gone down the drain. My numbers were from the top of my head so I checked the latest figures. For western Europe they still comply but the eastern European countries are in the same bracket as the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... death_rate

The Netherlands have a good record. Above numbers are for 2016 so I was not on the road then. ;)
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Re: WE are doomed!!!

Postby Dust » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:26 pm

Yeah, Americans do a lot more driving than others. I know a lot of people who commute an hour or more each way to work. One guy used to do 100 miles each way, every day, five days a week. 1000 miles a week.

Most of the "tires" you see on the side of the road in the US are actually retreads that came off. Truck tires are so expensive, that it's cheaper to attach new treads to the outside of old tires than to buy new ones, despite the labor involved. They will occasionally come off the outside of the tires in dramatic fashion, though.
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Re: WE are doomed!!!

Postby crfriend » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:38 pm

moonshadow wrote: prefer a flat mirror on both sides with a convex underneath the flat. This helps my judgement when backing up. My regular passenger vehicles have a convex on the passenger side and backing a trailer into a tight spot is a little more difficult when "objects in mirror are closer than they appear".

That's the ideal, but it interferes with (what passes for) "style" in this day and age. Complicating matters further, when one considers the horrific designed-in blind-spots in modern US passenger vehicles the inclusion of a TV-set in the dashboard actually makes some sense, and more and more vehicles -- especially the gargantuan "testosterone trucks" can now park themselves because the humans can't see what they're doing.

In practise, one learns to reverse using convex mirrors pretty easily. 95+% of my reversing is done using the mirrors as the rearward visibility in my 2012 car is so bad through the windows. Proper use of mirrors should be taught in driver-education classes. (It may be now, but wasn't when I passed through the system so many years ago.)
I've probably driven over a half million miles in my life already, averaging about 40k-50k miles per year on service van odometers alone, plus about 20k annually on my personal vehicles.

That's actually a pretty easy milestone to reach in the USA, and I did it in two cars (minivans, actually) alone not counting all the other cars I've driven.

Driving used to be enjoyable back in a time when everybody on the road was actually driving and not fiddling with some distraction in the cockpit. Today, with at least 1/3 of the "drivers" fiddling with their cell' 'phones driving as gotten to the point where it's lethal enough that I no longer even remotely like doing it save on empty little country lanes.
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Re: WE are doomed!!!

Postby Ray » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:49 pm

I’ve experienced driving throughout Europe and also in the USA.

Europe is way more congested, but is the standard of driving better? I’m not sure. What is absolutely better is the robustness of the cars allied to less kinetic energy. In short, the cars are not wobbly ladder frame 2 ton trucks. They are 1400kg monocoque vehicles with far greater torsional rigidity. These factors are likely to be a major contributors to road safety in Europe.

2018 road deaths in UK - 1,770
2018 road deaths in USA > 40,000

That’s quite remarkable.
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Re: WE are doomed!!!

Postby crfriend » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:04 pm

Ray wrote:2018 road deaths in UK - 1,770
2018 road deaths in USA > 40,000

That’s quite remarkable.

Slower speeds required due to the relative closeness of things and better driver attention to detail in Europe likely accounts for much of the difference. That, and the EU community place a higher importance of driver competency than the US does. Using cell' 'phones whilst behind the wheel is still tacitly legal in all 50 states because nobody gets prosecuted for it, and after a crash happens the coppers never bother to see whether a cell' 'phone was in use.

Another factor in play is that in most of western Europe distances are small enough, and mass-transit developed enough that personal cars can be viewed as a luxury. In the 'States a personal car is pretty much a prerequisite for survival as we're dispersed as a population and there's no viable mass-transit to really speak of.

Using the little hamlet I lived in for close to 30 years, about 20 years ago I figured out that in the prior century I would not have needed a car to get to work, and if I was to exert the effort to get to the local train station (we had two for a brief while) I could catch a train and, from there, by assorted means of transport get to just about anywhere in the civilised world. Today I need a car to get to work, take meals, and buy beer. We call that an improvement?
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Re: WE are doomed!!!

Postby john62 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:10 am

Here in Victoria, population just over 4 million, 100 people died in 2018 on the roads, this year it has already reached 157, what the numbers fail to mention is the number of seriously injuried people that have a whole life ahead.

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Re: WE are doomed!!!

Postby Dust » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:38 pm

crfriend wrote:
Ray wrote:2018 road deaths in UK - 1,770
2018 road deaths in USA > 40,000

That’s quite remarkable.

Slower speeds required due to the relative closeness of things and better driver attention to detail in Europe likely accounts for much of the difference. That, and the EU community place a higher importance of driver competency than the US does. Using cell' 'phones whilst behind the wheel is still tacitly legal in all 50 states because nobody gets prosecuted for it, and after a crash happens the coppers never bother to see whether a cell' 'phone was in use.

The totals are deceiving, as stated earlier, you need to look at the population difference at minimum, or the miles driven. I was supposed to learn the UK has a population as large as it does, but the US still has something like 5 times as many people. And we drive a lot more.

Hand held cell phones are illegal to use while driving in a number of states. Not every state, but some. Cops can pull you over for it as a primary offence some places. Other states it is only illegal in work zones, or is a secondary offence, meaning they can ticket you for it if you are already getting pulled over as an additional fine.
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Re: WE are doomed!!!

Postby beachlion » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:59 pm

The list of the World Health Organization (WHO). The figures are for per 100,000 inhabtants, for 100,000 vehicles and 1 billion vehicle-kilometer.

Europe: 9.3, 19, N/A
USA: 12,4, 14,2, 7,3
UK: 3,1, 5,7, 3,4
NL: 3,8, 6,0, 4,7
Norway: 2,7, 3,9, 3,0

All from 2016.

Next month my sister and brother in law will visit me. It is their first visit to the USA and they will drive a rental from New York to Allentown. So I will have fresh input from them about American traffic and roads.
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Re: WE are doomed!!!

Postby dillon » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:35 am

Someone stole a handcart like that out of my pickup while I was inside Tractor Supply about a month ago.
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Re: WE are doomed!!!

Postby r.m.anderson » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:45 pm

dillon wrote:Someone stole a handcart like that out of my pickup while I was inside Tractor Supply about a month ago.


And the Get-Away vehicle was a grocery cart ! LOL !
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