A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Non-fashion, non-skirt, non-gender discussions. If your post is related to fashion, skirts or gender, please choose one of the forums above for it.
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crfriend
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Post by crfriend » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:14 am

oldsalt1 wrote:I think the café is a great place not only on very rare occasions do we talk about men and their adventures in skirts.
Adventures in skirts? Where can I find one of those? I've been in need of a grand adventure since last year!
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Post by FranTastic444 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:32 am

Let it die. No politics / religion is much easier to police than allowing such emotive topics up until the point where things boil over (which they inevitably will)

My parting shots on this subject matter are :

To point those who are interested in Brexit to the following BBC podcast. I’ve not yet had chance to check it out myself but I have heard from others that it is a good show. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05299 ... /downloads

For those in the US, you can get digital subscription to The Times of London for just $5 per month. The coverage of Brexit is in depth

A cheaper alternative is to search for Robert Peston on the British tv channel, ITV

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Sinned
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Post by Sinned » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:34 am

So good old Boris Johnson is the leader in the Great Tory Prime Minister Race. Not sure that I like the idea of another "David Cameron" clone in the chair. He went to Uni with D. C. and was in the same clubs. But then none of the others seem to be particularly outstanding either. In the meantime in the Brexit Negotiations area the tumbleweeds go whistling and moving about in the breeze. The next vote is next Tuesday so we'll see what that brings. In the meantime the dirt will be dredged ....
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Post by skirtyscot » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:58 pm

FranTastic444 wrote: For those in the US, you can get digital subscription to The Times of London for just $5 per month. The coverage of Brexit is in depth

... and very right-wing. You could try the Independent or the Guardian, they're free and not right-wing.
Keep on skirting,

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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Post by FranTastic444 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:12 pm

skirtyscot wrote: ... and very right-wing. You could try the Independent or the Guardian, they're free and not right-wing.
Other opinions are available :-)

I hope this reply does not contravene the new rules - talking here about the political position (and history) of a newspaper, not politicians or politics of the day.

As one of the newspapers of record in the UK, the Times of London has always had closer access to the government of the day (regardless of which party were in power) than the other rags. It is true that the editorial of the Times has traditionally been right wing, but their reporting is meant to be impartial - but impartiality is subjective and can be difficult to measure. Being of centrist political persuasion (and the son of a former union leader) I don't particularly detect a strong bias on the reporting. Like many other broadsheets (that are mostly not broadsheet anymore), The Times now has regular and guest columnists / commentators of all political colours and it is up to the reader to decide what they read and what they believe.

The other UK newspaper of record, the Telegraph, is more overtly a publication of the right (it isn't known as the Torygraph without good reason).

The Guardian, referred to as the Grauniad by Private Eye because of frequent spelling misteaks back in the day before electronic collation and printing, is a paper of the left. Although I link to their articles on a number of occasions, I find their reporting to be left-tinged (not just their editorial) and I do not like the style of their publication (the layout, the way they report). Similarly, I did not like the style of the Independent back in the day when I used to buy physical newspapers (now Internet only - no print edition). It has been described as "views not news".

Back to the Times - they have a number of pages every day covering Brexit and I feel they have insight through their connections (from the left and right) that only Robert Peston comes close to matching. This may just be my personal perception - I confess that I have not compared in detail the coverage from all of the other purveyors of news coverage recently. So I guess that the best advice (on any topic, not just Brexit) is to take your news and views from a variety of different sources, read between the lines and form your own views on the subject matter.

One other point of note on this subject. It is my understanding that the websites of newspapers only cover abridged versions of their output. Certainly it is the case with the Times that their output on the Internet is a shadow of what you get from the printed edition or the content you get on an iPad or similar via their app. It is for this reason that I suggest that anyone who gets their content "for free" via newspaper websites should try a subscription for a while so as to get the full publication and to help keep these institutions in business.

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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Post by Uncle Al » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:31 am

FranTastic444 wrote:I hope this reply does not contravene the new rules - talking here about the
political position (and history) of a newspaper, not politicians or politics of the day.
These are not new :Rulz:

See the rules section HERE, which is listed at the top of every page of the Cafe'.
The rule in question is #2.

This is getting quite tiring, trying to get people to cooperate & be civil with each other.
That, among other things, is what caused the WARNING to be issued.

The two threads in "Question" WILL NOT BE UNLOCKED.

This decision was reached by major discussions of the Admin Staff.
Many 'discussions' have been held "behind closed doors", out of sight of
the Cafe' membership. These discussions have resulted in improvements,
warning members, etc.

As I write this, several members are currently walking on "Thin Ice".
PLEASE, EVERYONE, cool your jets so the "Ice" doesn't break :!:

Thanks :!:

Uncle Al
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Post by FranTastic444 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:59 pm

Uncle Al wrote:
FranTastic444 wrote:I hope this reply does not contravene the new rules - talking here about the
political position (and history) of a newspaper, not politicians or politics of the day.
These are not new :Rulz:

See the rules section HERE, which is listed at the top of every page of the Cafe'.
The rule in question is #2.

This is getting quite tiring, trying to get people to cooperate & be civil with each other.
That, among other things, is what caused the WARNING to be issued.
Ok, you got me there. I shall rephrase -

I hope this doesn't contravene the long established rules on posting about politics and religion that the Mods have recently reminded us about.

Not out of spite or malice, but more to show just how intertwined our day to day life is with both topics, I point to the Tennessee thread (upon which another mod has contributed) and make the observation that both religion and politics are fascinating subjects that many people want to discuss / debate. Easy for me to say (not being a mod), but it is a pity that it isn't bad forum etiquette that is banned rather than individual topics.

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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Post by crfriend » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:17 pm

FranTastic444 wrote:[... B]ut it is a pity that it isn't bad forum etiquette that is banned rather than individual topics.
The former is actually the intent, but sometimes that intent gets overwhelmed. Note, for the most part, that the moderators are remarkably laid back about things and tend to not intervene unless things are already getting close to out of control. As I've said numerous times, the world is a messy place filled with conflicting views and opinions. From a personal perspective, I am not a supporter at all of censorship; I espouse the free exchange of ideas, preferably in the form of debate which tends to remain reasonably civil.

Unfortunately, both religion and politics are hot-button issues that get passions involved and that's what throws things off the rails. It's because of those passions, and some folks' inability to rein them in, that causes the occasional need to be completely rigid in the application of the rules where most of the time they're treated as guidelines. In short, the moderation team does not like being rigid, but is capable of it when needed.

For the most part -- and this makes me very happy -- this is a civil place where dissenting views can be aired and sorted out in a civil manner, and I remain impressed on how often it works that way without the need for active and overt control. But, every once in a while, some random hot-button gets pushed and before we know it there's a large brush-fire going on that needs putting put.
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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Post by moonshadow » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:23 pm

I'd just like to recognize Jim. I was pretty blunt and hard on his chosen religion in the Tennessee thread, not towards him personally, but just the religion in general. I still struggle with trying to find any virtue in the faith, especially since Jenn is Christian and I try to be sensitive towards her beliefs, but Jim came, read my comment and left a very polite, thoughtful and gentlemanly responce.

Too bad we can't have more than that. I finished the comment wanting to shake his hand.
-Moon Shadow

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Re: A warning to the Cafe' members - Please Read

Post by Freefrom » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:42 am

Sometimes it's easy to forget the difference between the spoken and the written word. Person to person speech conveys a world of information that the written word cannot express. A pause, intake of breath, tone, volume,facial expression and much more all tell the listener so much more than the mere written word can hope to express. Reading an account of someones experiences, feelings or beliefs it is all too easy to misunderstand the subtlety of expression and sometimes misinterpret something for offence. I often fail but always try to 'cut some slack' whilst reading, especially if it's an emotive subject.

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