Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

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Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby moonshadow » Sun May 12, 2019 5:10 pm

I must admit, I felt a little guilty taking such an active participation in the derailment of the "skirts to dresses" thread. (I have linked to the point here where it started to run off the rails)

That being said, the topic is with merit, but further, and without going into cynical politics, let me add that perhaps I have noticed a slight tension and/or utter shock at my appearance in certain public areas. I will say that I don't think it's as bad as was pointed out, but I will also admit my window into the world is basically limited to what I see here in the hills of Appalachia.

This is an important point, because my region of the planet is highly conservative, religious, right wing, and basically, unchallenged. What I mean by this is the far (religious) right has a safe and firm grip on this area and that's not likely to change anytime soon. Most of our local elections, as well as state elections (from local districts) are uncontested Republican races. Democrats need not apply, even if you're a "Blue Dog Democrat". And not just any Republican will do. On our primaries, the winner is generally the more right wing of the others. A northern or west coast Republican also need not apply.

So, the result of all of this is that what few liberal minded people there are here are generally not seen as a threat to the conservative way of life. Thus, there isn't really a major push back. Though I'm not really liberal minded, I'm sure I come off that way to many both in my opinions and my dress. (My opinions generally lean Libertarian, but I generally realize that I'm a political idiot and will be the first to admit that when it comes to public policy, I don't know what I'm talking about [0]).

So anyway, I think part of the reason that members like Dillon and Carl, and maybe others might be noticing a stronger push back against anyone eccentric in the least could possibly be summed up with a simple analogy of arm wrestling. As you know, the act generally involves to people sitting opposite one another with their arms clasped together at their hand. The object is to force the opponents arm down to the table.

The actual physics of what happens is as one person applies force, the other applies an equal amount of force. Eventually one will overpower the other and the other arm will fall to the table. To continue on the analogy, right now those who desire true freedom [1] are straining, locked in tight combat with those who desire their version of "freedom" (basically, you're free do to whey they want you to do). They are equally straining. And so that's where I think we are at right now, and that's why I think certain people are getting more obnoxious and mean. Basically we are in the midst of a massive social war with little factions everywhere.

In my region, as I stated above, liberalism just isn't a thing, so anything that comes off "un-conservative" is viewed as more of a harmless quirk rather than a real threat to their way of life.

I want to say that I'm not a threat, God knows I don't try to be. Unlike many people who identify as liberal, I generally respect people's right to hate. Though I will admit it pains my heart to see folks who pay lip service to Christ and yet harbor unyielding intolerance, self righteousness and hatred in their heart. It also annoys me to read these ultra conservative blogs and other articles that spout "WE'RE FOR FREEDOM! FREEDOM FOR ALL!" And yet, the first time someone does something they don't like, they want to bring the whole damned sky down on that poor soul and harass that person back into obedience and compliance. --NOTE: The left is just as guilty of this. [1]

I'm sorry, that's not freedom, that authoritarianism. The two are polar opposites of one another. If that's their opinion, then fine, it's their right to have it, but lets just cut the bull sh!t about them saying that they're "freedom fighters", because they're not. They're fighting for their own world order imposed on everyone, not free will. They'd be more accurate to stop flying an American flag from their porch and fly the North Korean flag, or some other such state, because they'd fit in better there. And I already know that's going to rub a few here the wrong way and might even get this post flagged (no doubt from those who fancy themselves stewards of "American Freedom and Democracy"). I'm sorry if the fact of the matter hurts, but the fact is, you can't sit here and cite that you're pro-freedom on the one hand and on the other seek to restrict anyone who does any [harmless] thing contrary to what you think they ought to be doing!

You have a right to hate me, you have a right to shun me, if I walk into your business wearing a skirt and you turn me away, fine, I'll respect that (wouldn't want to spend my hard earned money on such an establishment anyway), but your right to hate me stops at my right to live my life as I CHOOSE, provided I'm not bringing any injury on anyone.

Anyway, I'm just rambling on. I guess my final point is, I suppose things may be getting more tense, and let me say, if Pete Buttigieg somehow manages to win the Democratic nomination then you better brace yourself, because the far right will go into full blown war, which is why I personally think it's a bad idea right now. If Trump wins 4 more years that doesn't really bother me as much as I thought it might have 2 years ago, after all, despite all the scandals and nonsense, my life remains largely unchanged, I've still got food to eat, I've still got a roof over my head, and I'm still wearing skirts freely, but most importantly with the current administration, nobody is challenging that the Earth isn't flat, and thus, the neo-cons are safe in their mindset. This makes my life easier. Right now the residents of Russell County likely look on me as a odd ball fruit cake of a "man", but a harmless one, and so they turn, point, snap their photos, laugh, so on and so forth, but they physically leave me alone. I'd rather have it that way than my tires being slashed every time I turn around, my house being spray painted, windows busted out, fired from work, weekly visits to the E.R. for stitches, etc etc.

Dillon and Carl live in liberal islands surrounded by suburban rednecks with disposable income. I think that might be why their perspective is that we are always in a social toxic stew. But I could be wrong, I, after all, do not live in their regions and see what they see day to day.

But right now, if Trump has shown us anything, it's that our nation just isn't ready for someone on the fringes of society to that extent (like a homosexual) to be the leader of the free world. Now, mind you I personally don't have a problem with it, but I think there is just too much hatred and willful ignorance in this nation right now, and I believe it will ultimately bring down baneful results on the rest of us. We are a powder keg... Obama set the keg in place, Trump laid the fuse, Buttigieg will light it.....

Last night while I was checking the fluids in my car after dark, my next door neighbor went outside talking on the phone. He didn't see me (I was wearing my pajama pants anyway) and I don't know what exactly he was talking about, but in a very ANGRY redneck tone I heard him rant (from a hundred feet away) "It just makes me hate Amurica [sic], that G-- damned faggot", and at that point I heard the storm door slam behind him.

Get ready boys....

[0] My political shortcomings and lack of savvy combined, my overall view can be viewed thusly: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, take care of the planet, strive to improve, be charitable, avoid excess consumerism, maintain the government at a size no larger than what's needed, dodge animals that are in the road if you can (including snakes), take care of and respect wildlife, waste no food, if you can work for your bread, do so, if you can't work, be grateful to others who provide your charity and the moment you get back on your feet, do so, leave the world a better place than when you found it, and of course... JUDGE NOT."

[1] This foot note is referenced twice in my post, as I do not believe the far left is any better, for they too seem to seek to restrict that which they do not agree with. It creates a vexing notion in my mind, and the question remains, "what exactly are we really fighting for?" Both sides seem to want to simply control the other, and myself and people like me are just caught up in the middle. Perhaps that's part of the reason I don't take any of it seriously, just smile, and carry on. I guess as long as the two sides are locked together in mortal combat to see who has the bigger ------, then maybe... just maybe, true freedom continues silently in the background..... :wink:

It's like being a child when your parents are fighting all day, you can literally do whatever you want in the yard and go into all the forbidden places because they're not paying attention anyway!
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby Fred in Skirts » Sun May 12, 2019 6:20 pm

Moonshadow you may think you are a political idiot but you make far more sense than most of the politicians and news people. You DO have a grasp on the situation better than those involved in it.
So I agree with what you are saying whole heartedly.

Along those lines the news this week is full of the mess in Atlanta Ga. The state has passed a law that restricts Abortion that once a heart beat is heard then it is no longer allowed to perform one. The Doctor and the patient are libel for a murder or manslaughter charge. It is thought that once a heartbeat is heard then the baby is alive and killing it would be a crime. There are only a few reasons not covered by the new law.

So who is screaming the loudest against this??? Why the Hollywood movie making companies who are boycotting the booming movie industry in Atlanta. They say they will not be making any Movies in Ga. at all. This is blackmail from companies that are not even head quartered in Ga. The Governor of Ga has said let them go where they want as they are not citizens of Ga. The legislation had strong support from the citizens of Ga.
Of course planned parenthood is also fighting tooth and nail as this will hurt their bottom line.
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:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts and dresses all of the time. :hooray:
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby Freedomforall » Sun May 12, 2019 7:39 pm

moonshadow wrote:It's like being a child when your parents are fighting all day, you can literally do whatever you want in the yard and go into all the forbidden places because they're not paying attention anyway!


I agree with everything you stated. It is very well said. The last few decades have just about turned my stomach on religion etc. I call horse crap on it all. I never thought I would feel this way but my eyes have opened more and more. My first eye opener was realizing that I sat through history class in school hearing what we did to the Indians and never gave it a second thought. I became more aware later in life and am completely appalled. I could hear every sermon from childhood echo in my mind, "We are a country built on Godly principles." I began to put all these things together in my mind and suddenly saw the great hypocrisy involved. Anyway, just my two cents worth.
Last edited by Uncle Al on Mon May 13, 2019 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quoting format
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby moonshadow » Mon May 13, 2019 1:28 am

Fred in Skirts wrote:Along those lines the news this week is full of the mess in Atlanta Ga. The state has passed a law that restricts Abortion that once a heart beat is heard then it is no longer allowed to perform one. The Doctor and the patient are libel for a murder or manslaughter charge. It is thought that once a heartbeat is heard then the baby is alive and killing it would be a crime. There are only a few reasons not covered by the new law.

So who is screaming the loudest against this??? Why the Hollywood movie making companies who are boycotting the booming movie industry in Atlanta. They say they will not be making any Movies in Ga. at all. This is blackmail from companies that are not even head quartered in Ga. The Governor of Ga has said let them go where they want as they are not citizens of Ga. The legislation had strong support from the citizens of Ga.
Of course planned parenthood is also fighting tooth and nail as this will hurt their bottom line.


The abortion issue seems to have the whole U.S. legislation process completely tied up. Generally I consider myself "pro-life", but I'm not going to cast stones at women who have them as I don't walk in their shoes. I just wish the issue would get resolved one way or the other so we can get on with other matters pressing our nation. Roe vs Wade will be overturned, it's just a matter of time at this point. Amber and I were discussing it yesterday that we are generally "in support" [of it being overturned] mainly for the reason of moving on.

I think my biggest issue with the "pro-life" camp is the hypocrisy. Pro-life, to me anyway means just that, that you support life. All life (all lives matter right?) It seems counter productive to me to bring a fetus into a world that will eventually take his or her life back by means of our destroying our habitat, poisoning our food and and water supply, and denying any means of affordable health care coverage, to say nothing for the odds of being involved (drafted) into some nuclear or biological war. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Freedomforall wrote:The last few decades have just about turned my stomach on religion etc. I call horse crap on it all. I never thought I would feel this way but my eyes have opened more and more. My first eye opener was realizing that I sat through history class in school hearing what we did to the Indians and never gave it a second thought. I became more aware later in life and am completely appalled. I could hear every sermon from childhood echo in my mind, "We are a country built on Godly principles." I began to put all these things together in my mind and suddenly saw the great hypocrisy involved. Anyway, just my two cents worth.


We may be a "Christian Nation" but make no mistake, we are nowhere near a "Christ like nation". For a while I became very "anti-Christian" due to the ugliness I witnessed unfolding in the name of their savior. Then after a while I realized through much soul searching, and the reading of some more reasonable and love-minded books that it's not the religion I have need take issue with, it's those who have perverted the religions message to suit their own warped agenda.

I participate in no religion. When I joined this site, I believe I was working my way out of the full board Pagan path (hence the username "moonshadow"), though I do still like the name (and it's shortened version "Moon")

These days I take the parts I like out of a wide variety of religions and combine them into a spiritual position that works for me. This was easy when I realized that they are basically all saying the same thing anyway, many even have the same roots. Paganism and Judaism basically grew up together and many of the rites are similar. Christianity and Islam forked off of the Hebrew traditions, and all are peppered with some influence of eastern religions.

My official religion: "Seeker". I seek spiritual truth wherever I may find it. I also have a strong "mystic" leaning about me.
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby Freedomforall » Mon May 13, 2019 2:00 am

There is a book I would like to read called A History of the Corruptions of Christianity. It is written by Joseph Priestly. Has anyone on the forum read it?
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby dillon » Mon May 13, 2019 4:46 am

Politically, I am not quite as one-sided as Moon made me seem. But I am undoubtedly a Trumpie’s worst nightmare- fair-tax, small-government, social progressive who refuses to embrace either profound ignorance and/or pathological mendacity in a POTUS. If anyone can show me how indulging either benefits the Republic, I’ll be all ears.

I’m proudly globalist because I see the multitude of ways the US, and world as a whole, benefits from mutually-affirming international relationships, and understand that a certain amount of give and take is necessary. It isn’t about one country winning and another losing; a high tide lifts all boats. And few of the isolationists I have known have had any international experience aside from military deployments, and that environment doesn’t lend itself to encouraging either human compassion or thoughtful objectivity. In other words, I don’t see shithole countries; I see shithead politicians, fawning fools, and superficial sycophants.

Too, the planet is in such dire straits at this time that we cannot afford to indulge inaction just because the powerful tell us that we’re supposed to be “respectful” to a petty and reckless demagogue. I drove past hundreds of wind turbines today, slowly turning, producing electricity from the energy that God placed right in front of us, and recalled hearing our relentlessly lying POTUS claiming that these graceful giants, like slow motion ballerinas in pirouette en pointe, were unsightly, that they caused cancer and shredded birds into confetti. I marveled at how anyone who had seen mountaintop-removal strip-mining in Appalachia could find wind turbines unsightly. But even more I marvel at how otherwise rational people become willing delusional for our Colluder-In-Chief, and wonder just what itch some people have that he seems to be able to scratch.

Despise me if it pleases you but don’t expect me to wear a label for anyone’s inability to sort me neatly into a cubbyhole.
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby oldsalt1 » Mon May 13, 2019 9:41 am

Dillion its a shame that you are unable to post a single thought without the inclusion of a derogatory comment about The president.

One more time this is not a political thread. and actions like yours are exactly why the thread was derailed.

You are entitled to your inane biased opinions just post them on a political thread not on the café

Moon's lengthy thread is also political in nature but he is trying to demonstrate a point with out having to result to direct attacks.
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby moonshadow » Mon May 13, 2019 2:05 pm

dillon wrote:Politically, I am not quite as one-sided as Moon made me seem.


I apologize if that's how I came off, it wasn't intentional. There is much in your comment I'd like to discuss, but it will have to wait until I get on the dinosaur (my old desktop) with a proper keyboard.

Old salt is correct that this thread really wasn't intended to cover all political bases, though I do realize the subject matter will teter in and out if politics. I welcome open discussion on whatever comes to mind, but please gentlemen, let's remain civil so this thread doesn't get locked or deleted. I have some fascinating thoughts I'd like to write and I'd like the thread to still be here tonight. :lol: :wink:
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby Ralph » Mon May 13, 2019 2:10 pm

moonshadow wrote:When I joined this site, I believe I was working my way out of the full board Pagan path (hence the username "moonshadow"), though I do still like the name (and it's shortened version "Moon")


And there I always thought you were just a Cat Stevens fan (you have probably heard that a lot wherever you use this nom de cyber).
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby moonshadow » Mon May 13, 2019 2:17 pm

Ralph wrote:
moonshadow wrote:When I joined this site, I believe I was working my way out of the full board Pagan path (hence the username "moonshadow"), though I do still like the name (and it's shortened version "Moon")


And there I always thought you were just a Cat Stevens fan (you have probably heard that a lot wherever you use this nom de cyber).


I am a Cat Steven's fan, especially a lot of his "B" tracks. But the name "Moon Shadow" I received many years ago when myself and a few others attempted to form a Wiccan coven. The endeavor ultimately failed, however I kept the name as I liked the sound if it. Even in the real world I rather like being called "Moon" so much so that I've considered adopting it as my "official" nick name.

In other words, when someone in meat space ask my name, I'd reply "they call me Moon".

I haven't started this yet and the jury is still out if I will, it I'm just saying it's something I've thought about.
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby Ralph » Mon May 13, 2019 6:45 pm

And once again, as happens every time we interact here, that song is stuck in my head for the rest of the day. Meh, I guess it could be worse :-)
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby Grok » Tue May 14, 2019 12:21 am

I think that Obama was detested in a way no other president has been-because he wasn't Lilly while. I have to wonder if that caused cognitive dissonance for many people.
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby crfriend » Tue May 14, 2019 12:49 am

Grok wrote:I think that Obama was detested in a way no other president has been-because he wasn't Lilly while. I have to wonder if that caused cognitive dissonance for many people.

Cognitive dissonance may have been part of it for some, and outright racism for others; personally, I didn't have much of a problem save for policy issues. Overall, from a cultural perspective, I enjoyed the Obama years as what was presented from the White House was eloquent, cerebral, and civilised. From a policy viewpoint, however, Obama's term in office was nothing more than another eight years of Dubya and his failed policies, and we fell ever further into the Olicarchy that we are now.

The current denizen is clearly doing well by his paymasters as he's (1) still in office and (2) still alive. If he'd defied orders than one or the other of the above would be untrue. What bothers me about the current "communication" from the White House is that it's largely incoherent, inane, pandering, belligerent, and ignorant.

Whither the Republic?
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby Grok » Tue May 14, 2019 1:03 am

I live in Seattle, which is regarded as being one of the most liberal cities in the country. (I believe that San Francisco would rate as number one). Actually, this seems to be a cultural shock for some who move here from more conservative areas.

Whatever your view on politics, the fact that Seattle is the headquarters of Utilikilts says something positive about the place.
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Re: Some follow up thoughts on a derailed thread....

Postby Freedomforall » Tue May 14, 2019 1:24 am

Grok wrote:I live in Seattle, which is regarded as being one of the most liberal cities in the country. (I believe that San Francisco would rate as number one). Actually, this seems to be a cultural shock for some who move here from more conservative areas.

Whatever your view on politics, the fact that Seattle is the headquarters of Utilikilts says something positive about the place.



I visited Seattle in December 2018. I felt very at home and loved the place!
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