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skirtcafe.org • View topic - How many is enough to normalise us?

How many is enough to normalise us?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.

How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby skirtyscot » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:22 am

Keep on skirting,

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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby crfriend » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:48 am

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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby dillon » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:50 am

We think less and less of seeing same-sex couples now, and in the US 4.5% of the population identifies as LGBTQ (which likely means the true portion is maybe twice that) so I’d speculate that observing 1% of men wearing skirts would be adequate to normalize it for many people. Of course there will always be haters. African-Americans are about 20% of our population and there are still racists around raising their ugly heads, so the threshold varies by predisposition to tolerance.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby moonshadow » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:03 am

As far as I know, I think I'm the only one for hundreds of miles. Some pass through on trail days in Damascus, But that's a special circumstance. I've never seen another local man in my region who dresses like I do.

I've only seen one transgender woman and even she was wearing pants.

Guess I'm just "special"

I'd say we're probably literally around one in a million. Yes, that means I'd estimate there might be 328 of us (non trans, non kilt wearing, freestyling skirt wearing men) on average in the U.S.

I do not count the bravehearts in this estimate.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby denimini » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:29 am

Perhaps 1 in 1000 to be unremarkable and 1 in 100 to be considered normal.

I think we are sometimes accepted as unremarkable because we are lumped into "that's different" and there are 100's of other different things one sees; vast tattooing, multiple piercings, missing limbs, grosse saggers, etc.

Who wants to be normal?
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby STEVIE » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:52 am

Hi SS,
I reckon that it may be a case of how often just as much as how many to get “Joe Public” accustomed to a guy in a skirt.
Up here, I have been around the city centre on a regular enough basis that I have just become another part of the background.
I have also visited enough shops, pubs and other establishments that any other skirted guy would likely be less than a novelty.
The only flaw in this is that Aberdeen has still got a village mentality for the size of the place.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby Stu » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:48 am

Look out for certain indicators that it has become normalised.

1. Mainstream, not just high-fashion, shops sell skirts for men as permanent lines. In the UK, that might be Marks and Spencer; in the US, J C Penney or Macy's.

2. Men wearing skirts are seen in TV dramas, soaps, sitcoms and it's not an issue or treated as being unremarkable

3. Handed down items from older siblings and cousins - it becomes as natural to hand down a simple pinafore or skirt to a younger boy as it would be to a girl.

We are not there yet, gentlemen.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby Jim » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:35 pm

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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby rivegauche » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:34 pm

It depends who is perceiving it as normal. I have several times wandered round Aberdeen in a skirt (as a man) without getting a reaction. Same with Edinburgh. I asked the SA in LTS in Aberdeen (now sadly closed) how often they got me trying on clothes and she said men trying on clothes was a normal part of a normal day. Kilts are routine - men who work in hotels or deal with tourists often wear them, so do pipers, soldiers, and men at weddings. Just for curiosity I counted the number of male kilts I saw in Inverness within half an hour - 6 - and only two of them were together. I think the more of us go out in the streets the easier it will be for someone to make the first move and wear one to work (I salute those who already do). Going out in the streets is easy after the first time. First time in any situation it is going to be scary wherever you do it. I suspect we already have the numbers to make it normal - we just have to be SEEN in those numbers.

The biggest leap forward would be if we got people to see past the gender thing. I think that is the real barrier. Too many people view a man in a skirt as a guy with gender issues - but then you all knew that - we just need society to know that a man in a skirt is just a man in a skirt.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby moonshadow » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:04 pm

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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby moonshadow » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:36 pm

Further, an estimate of 6,000 averages to about 120 per state. I feel that's pretty high. Virginia is a reasonably culturally diverse state all in all, and has 95 counties, that would average out to 1.26 per county. Tennessee has the same number, and North Carolina boast 100 for an average of 1.2 per.

Unless they're all hoarded up over in the ... I highly doubt it man...

In fact, I'd say 6,000 is going to be a tough number if we ever reach it. That's about the right number before a movement starts to gain serious traction. Ten years from that point it's liable to become truly "mainstream".

The trouble is, once it becomes more noticeable, but not yet fully accepted (similar to homosexuality in the 1980's and early 90's) then your far right religious types are going to start petitioning for its prohibition. Expect anti-crossdressing laws to make a comeback. Hopefully there will be enough traction for all 6,000 of us to band together with other allies and overcome this...

That being said, as men are not known as the type of people who actually work well together.... well, I just don't know.

Personally I think we're fine enough to fly under the radar.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby crfriend » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:48 pm

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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby moonshadow » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:27 pm

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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby crfriend » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:15 pm

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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby Dust » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:51 pm

Public perception and actual numbers are two different things. I'll give some examples that came to mind as I read the other comments here:

1. The gay community pushed the notion for a long time that they were 10% of the population. The statistic was bull****, but no one publicly questioned it. The actual numbers are thought to be in the 2-3% range. But they got in front of the camera and did a huge PR blitz for decades. They had help from Hollywood and made sure people heard about them ad nauseum. Pride parades and so on. It got a lot of pushback, but largely worked.

2. A city was feeling the need to increase their police presence, but didn't have the money to hire more officers or pay lots of overtime. What they did instead, was buy more cars. One painted, obvious police car was issued to every officer. They were instructed to take them home at the end of their shift, and use them for personal trips around the city, like going to the store, picking up their kids from school, etc. The city hired no new officers, but the public thought that the police presence had doubled.


Not sure how we can apply all this, other than emphasise getting out and being seen. There will be no help from Hollywood, no billion dollar PR campaign. We shouldn't lie about our numbers either. But we can wear skirts publicly more often, and not hide it from people we know.

My point here is, that numbers don't matter as much as you might think. It's a perception thing.
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