A short documentary Tomgirl

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
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Freedomforall
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A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by Freedomforall » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:59 am

I just watched this and totally admire the courage this boy has. https://vimeo.com/147551380

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denimini
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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by denimini » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:12 pm

Yes, amazing the self-confidence at that age.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia

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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by skirtyscot » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:14 pm

Interesting that the mother and the gender therapist were saying very different things. The mother was saying that gender roles and clothing are imposed by society and there is no reason to conform to them. The gender therapist woman was coming out with the usual guff about some undefinable aspect of personality and if it doesn't line up with society's arbitrary rules, you must be transgender. There wasn't the slightest suggestion in the film that the boy was anything other than a boy who has not been forced into the usual box marked "boy behaviour".
Keep on skirting,

Alastair

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Freedomforall
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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by Freedomforall » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:48 pm

skirtyscot wrote:Interesting that the mother and the gender therapist were saying very different things. The mother was saying that gender roles and clothing are imposed by society and there is no reason to conform to them. The gender therapist woman was coming out with the usual guff about some undefinable aspect of personality and if it doesn't line up with society's arbitrary rules, you must be transgender. There wasn't the slightest suggestion in the film that the boy was anything other than a boy who has not been forced into the usual box marked "boy behaviour".
Great observations. I somehow missed that. I agree with the mother and not all the psycho-babble.

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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by moonshadow » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:22 pm

Anyone catch what the young man said about half way through regarding labels...

Yeah.. that's my bag.

Excellent find FreedomForAll! I love that they used "male" pronouns and seemed so nonchalant about Jake and his style.

I didn't catch it, it was hard to tell, is he living stateside or in Canada? I saw both flags. I caught a few license plates, and they didn't look Canadian. Wisconsin?

Mom is awesome.

I could have been Jake. God knows I enjoyed prancing around in mom's heels back in day... but alas, the late 1980's were a different time.... Still the 80's seem to raise up some pretty cool soon to be parents... so it's a win!
-Moon Shadow

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r.m.anderson
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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by r.m.anderson » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:44 am

moonshadow wrote:Anyone catch what the young man said about half way through regarding labels...

Yeah.. that's my bag.

Excellent find FreedomForAll! I love that they used "male" pronouns and seemed so nonchalant about Jake and his style.

I didn't catch it, it was hard to tell, is he living stateside or in Canada? I saw both flags. I caught a few license plates, and they didn't look Canadian. Wisconsin?

Mom is awesome.

I could have been Jake. God knows I enjoyed prancing around in mom's heels back in day... but alas, the late 1980's were a different time.... Still the 80's seem to raise up some pretty cool soon to be parents... so it's a win!
xxxxx

is he living stateside or in Canada? I saw both flags. I caught a few license plates, and they didn't look Canadian. Wisconsin?

License plates - Washington state - at the end note the ferry boat (Puget Sound) - Both flags at Comcast Community Ice Rink Everett Washington

Elementary my dear Watson (ah er Moonshadow) - Sherlock at your service LOL !
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !

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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by STEVIE » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:23 am

Hi All,
I reckon that quite a few of us in the café will have some resonance with this ultra-cool little dude. I also think that a lot of problems could be avoided if parental attitudes were more like his Mother’s.
My fashion exploration began in the mid-sixties and my parents would have had something akin to apoplexy if I had expressed them openly.
I did not get the impression that the therapist was passing a direct opinion or prognosis in Jake’s case. I’m not even sure that he was in any kind of counselling or therapy either. In reality, the kid was more grounded and wiser in a way beyond his years.
However, it was the binary attitude to clothing and gender which did actually cause me most difficulty as I grew up. Skirt equals female so therefore the logic is to attempt to appear as a girl in order to wear a skirt. That was my logic anyway and I never had anyone to ask for advice on the subject either. That just led me on what was a very frustrating and depressingly wild goose chase for fashion freedom. That quest only came to a conclusion when I was able to give myself the permission to wear a skirt as a guy. Then I discovered our café and the rest is another history and a happier period of my life too.
Let’s just hope that the 80s parents are really cool enough to raise a whole new generation of Janes and Jakes. People who will render all the old arguments completely null and void for once and all.
Moon, I took that from your comment and note with interest that I am old enough to be your Dad.
Steve.

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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:44 am

Hello Stevie, I went through pretty much the same journey. Thank God for the SkirtCafe and the 21st Century 'Teens!
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.

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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:01 am

Hi Moonshadow, Thank you for finding this and sharing it. What a great kid! He is blessed to have such great, supportive adults in his life!

Don't we ALL envy him!
Last edited by Pdxfashionpioneer on Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.

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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by STEVIE » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:02 pm

Hi David,
I had a recent conversation that centred around when I became interested in wearing female clothes. I reckon that I was about five years old.
The point is that I have no conscious memory of being forbidden yet I knew enough to keep it as my own guilty little secret,
I was in my late teens before I told another living soul. That was a girl that I had been dating for a while and she promptly dumped me.
That continued until I met my wife and she was informed as soon as the permanent nature became obvious.
I'm digressing so I'll just close that Jake's example is one to be held up as a shining beacon. That's for society as a whole, not jusst parents with kids who have a different world view.
Steve.

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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by mishawakaskirt » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:31 pm

skirtyscot wrote:Interesting that the mother and the gender therapist were saying very different things. The mother was saying that gender roles and clothing are imposed by society and there is no reason to conform to them. The gender therapist woman was coming out with the usual guff about some undefinable aspect of personality and if it doesn't line up with society's arbitrary rules, you must be transgender. There wasn't the slightest suggestion in the film that the boy was anything other than a boy who has not been forced into the usual box marked "boy behaviour".
For doctor's and therapist's transgenderism is quite the cash cow. If you convince a few children they are trans you got a life long customer. Of treatment s, hormones, surgeries, therapy sessions, it's a very lucrative business. Someday it will be viewed just like the opioids epidemic in the states. After great damage has been done to part of a generation of children. The children are the victims here. They are vulnerable to this stuff. It's one thing if an adult wants to switch (I don't agree with that decision, but they are an adult capable of making that decision) then do it. But leave the children alone!
I have read several accounts where trans people thought transitioning would make them happy and fulfilled. To later discover they were more depressed and less fulfilled than before the transition. Now they live a reclusive life, stuck someplace between male and female.
Mishawakaskirt @2wayskirt on Twitter

Avoid the middle man, wear a kilt or skirt.

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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by Sinned » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:01 pm

Steve, I went down that road as well but thankfully it was for only a very, very short time 0]. It was actually the idea of wearing makeup that woke me up. I realised that eye makeup would be a problem as I am blind in my right eye. There was also the learning curve, the disconcertingly confusing array of products but mainly the time taken to apply everything. Once I'd made that decision a lot of other decisions became easy. The funny thing is that once all the decisions were made and I'd centred on the skirt, slip and tights or thigh-highs I've now reversed some of my original decisions and include such as cami and other tops in my wardrobe. Heels are problematic as I have small feet [1] so the angle of the foot from heel to toe for even 2.3 or 3 inch heels puts a lot of pressure on the front of my foot. Believe me, I've tried. Dresses also are in the "watch this space" realm. As for when I was little, I am an only child so didn't have any sisters to bounce ideas off so my change in sartorial tastes has evolved slowly.

[0] Weeks rather than months.
[1] Men's size 7, women's 8.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.

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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by pelmut » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:01 am

mishawakaskirt wrote:For doctor's and therapist's transgenderism is quite the cash cow.
In the same way that left-handedness or ginger hair are?  Any doctor claiming to 'treat' transgenderism in the UK would be struck off and anyone attempting to 'cure' it would be in serious trouble with the law.

I hope your comment referred to long-outdated practices or was based on misinformation.
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.

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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by Grok » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:35 am

My impression is not that the boy is transgender, but that he is in a phase in which he likes to experiment-perhaps more so than most children.

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Re: A short documentary Tomgirl

Post by Daryl » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:26 am

mishawakaskirt wrote:
skirtyscot wrote:Interesting that the mother and the gender therapist were saying very different things. The mother was saying that gender roles and clothing are imposed by society and there is no reason to conform to them. The gender therapist woman was coming out with the usual guff about some undefinable aspect of personality and if it doesn't line up with society's arbitrary rules, you must be transgender. There wasn't the slightest suggestion in the film that the boy was anything other than a boy who has not been forced into the usual box marked "boy behaviour".
For doctor's and therapist's transgenderism is quite the cash cow. If you convince a few children they are trans you got a life long customer. Of treatment s, hormones, surgeries, therapy sessions, it's a very lucrative business. Someday it will be viewed just like the opioids epidemic in the states. After great damage has been done to part of a generation of children. The children are the victims here. They are vulnerable to this stuff. It's one thing if an adult wants to switch (I don't agree with that decision, but they are an adult capable of making that decision) then do it. But leave the children alone!
I have read several accounts where trans people thought transitioning would make them happy and fulfilled. To later discover they were more depressed and less fulfilled than before the transition. Now they live a reclusive life, stuck someplace between male and female.
This is my view too. Leave the boys alone. A girl wants to wear nothing but trousers, have short hair, wear no makeup, and play hockey, at worst she is called a bit of a tomboy, but more than likely, nothing is made of it. This is the only appropriate reponse to boys doing the analogous thing.
Daryl...

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