pleats?

[couyalair]

In another thread, Allen wrote :
"I am working on the new version of the actikilt ... it has 20 box pleats ... that are the real time zapper."

I know that well-made pleats look great in a kilt, but they are a bother to make, so are they really necessary?
They are fine for marching in a pipe band, or just walking or hiking, but, these days, most of us spend more time sitting down than standing or moving, and the pleats have to be carefully smoothed down if they are not to become uncomfortable. Traditional, yes, but what a waste of (expensive) cloth!

Having one box pleat at the back for ease of movement is not a bad idea, but 20 ? !!!

I found a second-hand wrap skirt some months ago, brown denim, which fits me fine, held in place with a belt, A-line and ample enough for me to move, climb on chairs, cycle without any problem --- with no pleats at all. If I ever want to have a skirt made, it will be a copy of this.

Martin

[skirtilator]

Without pleats it is not a kilt. Airconditioning and freedom of movement exist in a kilt thanks to the pleats. It is still not the same amount of movement without the pleats. They guarantee freedom of movement even with the most rigid material. They are the main reason why a kilt isn't exactly cheap compared to mass produced skirts in 3-world countries.

It depends on the material if there is any maintainance required. Cotton duck e. g. is easy to maintain but rigid.

[couyalair]

Without pleats it is not a kilt.

Agreed, but, as most of the members of this forum would say : "So what?" Who say we have to wear a real kilt associated with active men living in a cold country in the distant north? I very much like good woolen kilts, but perhaps it's time for things to evolve.

I have no respect at all for all those stiff-upper-lip gents that colonized warm countries in the 19th c, and continued wearing the thick stiff clothes they had worn in their castles at home. I'm sure they would have been happier if they'd tried lighter, less restrictive clothing, and their better frame of mind might even have led to better treatment of the locals.

Martin

[allen476]

I know that well-made pleats look great in a kilt, but they are a bother to make, so are they really necessary?
They are fine for marching in a pipe band, or just walking or hiking, but, these days, most of us spend more time sitting down than standing or moving, and the pleats have to be carefully smoothed down if they are not to become uncomfortable. Traditional, yes, but what a waste of (expensive) cloth!

Having one box pleat at the back for ease of movement is not a bad idea, but 20 ? !!!

Martin

Actually my idea was to have it look near a kilt not a tennis skirt. 20 pleats in the grand scheme of things is a pittance if one compares it to the actual number of pleats in a kilt. In a trial run of the back panel, it looks like a kilt.

It makes use of activewear material. Think gym shorts or golf shirts. Light, airy, soft, and easy to take care of. No ironing or dry cleaning needed. The material is about $2/yard so not that expensive. No pattern either, just a lot of geometry.

Why did I do this? If you look at the progression of where men's clothes are headed, you will see that the trend is going towards more athletic and casual types of clothing. Why should the kilt be left out? If we want skirting and even kilting to be more accepted, then the kilt would be a better vehicle to make it more mainstream. The taboo is far less with a kilt than a skirt. Updating the materials and designs makes it seam more stylish and appealing. Outside of KiltThis, many of the kilt designs are rather boring and made of fabrics that require ironing.

I came up with another version that uses wider knife pleats and makes use of fabric that is wrinkle free kind of like the fabric used in Dockers. So again lighter and more comfortable. I am thinking of calling it "Actikilt Golf". It would look like a golf kilt when finished honestly.

[Tassierob]

While the idea sounds great - you have to be very care full with the fabric.

I have actually made a light weight kilt out of a similar fabric to good trousers. The big problem however is the wind. Even the lightest breeze tends to lift the fabric
The most successful version for me has been a hybrid light weight...actually a skirt with pleats down the back. It stays down far better as the wind gets up as there is no apron to lift.

[skirtilator]

Agreed, but, as most of the members of this forum would say : "So what?" Who say we have to wear a real kilt associated with active men living in a cold country in the distant north? I very much like good woolen kilts, but perhaps it's time for things to evolve.

I have no respect at all for all those stiff-upper-lip gents that colonized warm countries in the 19th c, and continued wearing the thick stiff clothes they had worn in their castles at home. I'm sure they would have been happier if they'd tried lighter, less restrictive clothing, and their better frame of mind might even have led to better treatment of the locals.

Most of the members are men in women's skirts and the kilt is a historical grown garment, not just a fashion garment. Who say, the concept hast to be deluted into oblivion? What has freedom of movement with living in an cold country to do? You have the same effect with Sport Kilts. Pleats are a good air condition too - cold in the summer, warm in the winter. If you don't need this much of freedom of movement, stick with the women's wrap around skirts + you could never beat the swish and drape of pleats with a women's wrap arround skirt. I see, I repeat myself here due to your ignorance and focus on the easiest argument.

The kilt has already been degenerated to a part of a costume. I don't see more room for degeneration here. I don't see the point here either, there is no fixed number or shape of pleats required for a REAL kilt, but da more da better in terms of "it makes sense" and looks good. The material, a kilt has to be made off, isn't specified either. No pleats, no kilt but something that already exists, got it?

Sure, you could make something up and call it a kilt to trick guys into buying it but without resamblence to keltic heritage, only uninformed people would buy into it.

Now I get why some kilt wearer call the Utilikilt a delution of concept, but at this stage they are wrong, it is a full fledged kilt. At your stage they are absolutely right and should tar and feather you at will.

Why did I do this? If you look at the progression of where men's clothes are headed, you will see that the trend is going towards more athletic and casual types of clothing. Why should the kilt be left out?

Did you ever heard of Sport Kilt or 5.11 tdk? A fixed front doesn't offer any room for adjustability, the huge advantage of a kilt.

[couyalair]

Although I started this thread, I cannot understand at all the posts that have been added. They seem very vehement, as if I had said something annoying, but I've no idea what you are trying to tell me.
I mentioned Allen's kilt-making merely as a starting point for my own feeling about the excessive weight and warmth of numerous pleats, but certainly not to criticize his work or his style.
Let's close the discussion before it gets nasty.
Martin

[allen476]

Although I started this thread, I cannot understand at all the posts that have been added. They seem very vehement, as if I had said something annoying, but I've no idea what you are trying to tell me.
I mentioned Allen's kilt-making merely as a starting point for my own feeling about the excessive weight and warmth of numerous pleats, but certainly not to criticize his work or his style.
Let's close the discussion before it gets nasty.
Martin

I approached your question as sheer curiosity, not disdain. I apologize if you thought my answer was in a condescending tone. It wasn't meant to be like that and didn't sound to me like that when I typed it.

The weight and warmth is greatly diminished with the fabrics I chose. Not hot at all. When I did the first version, the biggest criticism I heard that it looked too much like a skirt. So adding more pleats takes it back to more of a kilt feel. By design, the pleats added very little weight.

Sure, you could make something up and call it a kilt to trick guys into buying it but without resamblence to keltic heritage, only uninformed people would buy into it.

Now I get why some kilt wearer call the Utilikilt a delution of concept, but at this stage they are wrong, it is a full fledged kilt. At your stage they are absolutely right and should tar and feather you at will.

Why did I do this? If you look at the progression of where men's clothes are headed, you will see that the trend is going towards more athletic and casual types of clothing. Why should the kilt be left out?

Did you ever heard of Sport Kilt or 5.11 tdk? A fixed front doesn't offer any room for adjustability, the huge advantage of a kilt.

While some of what you say makes sense, one thing you leave out is history. Fashion evolves and changes. Did women just put on men's pants and claim them to be feminine? Not really, they took the idea and made their own. If we really want fashion freedom, then the fashion needs to evolve.

I haven't released all of the details of what I am making. Either by choice, or because I haven't decided how I want certain things to be. While I am planning on adjustability into it, I haven't decided on the execution of such. There are three ways I have in mind I would like but need to mock them up and see which way I like best.

While the idea sounds great - you have to be very care full with the fabric.

I have actually made a light weight kilt out of a similar fabric to good trousers. The big problem however is the wind. Even the lightest breeze tends to lift the fabric
The most successful version for me has been a hybrid light weight...actually a skirt with pleats down the back. It stays down far better as the wind gets up as there is no apron to lift.

I know what you mean. A test run of the fabric with narrow pleats showed it would lift easily. I then played with wider pleats and the lifting diminished a little. I have a lot of different things I want to try to get back to narrower pleats without the lift.

[Caultron]

It's occurred to me that the wind problem could be reduced by adding a heavier band of cloth inside and around the hem, like a short liner.

I've also thought of adding a snap on the bottom left corner of the apron, and perhaps another half the way up. For symmetry, I'd then attach matching snap heads (but not posts) on the right.

Kilt pins obviously help as well, but I'm always afraid they'll leave a visible pinhole in the fabric.

[Milfmog]

I added a curtain weight (like a lead button about an inch in diameter) to the lower corner of the front apron of my Union Kilt. It helped, but was not sufficient to completely eliminate the tendency to lift in an awkward breeze.

My Utilikilt has the only modesty system I've seen that really works in high winds. This is a toggle type button in the centre of the front apron on the inside. this goes through a button hole in the right hand under apron and then there is another loop on the left hand inner apron. In really blustery weather the toggle can go right through the back of the kilt where there is another button hole hidden in the bottom of a pleat. Of course, once it is all done up it feels more like wearing a pleated pair of shorts...

Have fun,


Ian.

[BobM]

Although I started this thread, I cannot understand at all the posts that have been added. They seem very vehement, as if I had said something annoying, but I've no idea what you are trying to tell me.
I mentioned Allen's kilt-making merely as a starting point for my own feeling about the excessive weight and warmth of numerous pleats, but certainly not to criticize his work or his style.
Let's close the discussion before it gets nasty.
Martin

Martin, you did not say anything annoying. Not far from here in Franklin, North Carolina, resides the Scottish Tartans Museum which is the finest in the country. Visit:http://www.scottishtartans.org/ Their collection dates back to the late 1700's, and they point out that the kilt was originally arranged according to the fancy of the wearer. Box pleats were the original form of fixed pleating, but little attention was paid to the sett. All early kilts were simply gathered into folds and belted. The knife pleat prevalent today did not come into vogue until the late 19th century. So no one should say that "if it doesn't have pleats it isn't a kilt".

[cessna152towser]

Most of the members are men in women's skirts

Careful!
This could upset a few people.
While it is true that some members do wear skirts which were originally designed as women's wear, this is not a cross dressing forum and I think you will find that most of us here do not wear women's skirts.
Much of the discussion on here is about traditional and non-traditional kilts and indeed about alternative designs of unbifurcated garments which have been designed for men, not all of which garments are pleated.
I certainly do not wear women's skirts. I do occasionally wear jeans skirts (unpleated) which were made by Midas of Manchester England specifically for menswear. These cost a lot more than a woman's jeans skirt because they are produced in much smaller numbers. I think I would look rather silly wearing a woman's skirt, the waist/hip ratio would be all wrong for starters so it wouldn't hang right.
When I am wearing one of my Midas jeans skirts it never fails to amaze me that most people refer to it as a kilt. Perhaps they are just being polite but I wouldn't be offended if they just called it a skirt.

[skirtyscot]

Yes, he might upset some, but he is right. Many of us do wear skirts designed for women. But so what? The choice is between
1 a kilt, expensive unless you go for the bottom of the range;
2 a men's skirt, expensive; and
3 a women's skirt.

I have a denim skirt from M&S which cost £11 in a sale. It fits me fine, it has reasonable sized pockets, it looks pretty much like a straight unpleated skirt would look like if you designed it for men. Why pay more?

There's room in this forum for kilts and other types of skirt. The traditional kilt is stuck in a rut, so it is time for men's skirts to branch out. If you think we have to stop at Utilikilts, and we must have pleats in our skirts, then go pleated. But anyone who can't see beyond kilts and doesn't respect other people's opinions, may be in the wrong forum.

[Grok]

Or number 4, a DIY project if you are so inclined.

[Grok]

Utilikilts seem to be a series of experiments. And I think the present could be considered a period of experimentation.