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crfriend
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Re: Live Steam

Post by crfriend »

Tor wrote:As for the faraday cage, that has more to do with shielding EM fields. The reason a car would be safe is primarily because of the rubber insulation of the tyres, rather than the faraday cage.
We're prattling on about two separate phenomena here. The Faraday cage is about one application of the surface-effect of high-speed "signals" and the one about the trolley-pole and the golf-club a matter of simply closing a circuit as efficiently as possible.

The punk whacking a pigeon off a charged catenary would likely not get fried because the voltages involved would likely not be able to make him part of a circuit between said catenary and the covered non-skid and painted surfaces of the tram itself. 600 VDC is not enough to ionize the surrounding substances, so an arc is not possible; one needs a direct low-resistance path. (This is why fatal accidents when peeing on the 3rd rail are urban legend -- there's no low-resistance path. The Mythbusters did a great show on this bit of UL a number of years ago.) The caveat is not to try this with modern 25,000+ volt catenary systems -- those will draw arcs of several feet.

Now, the Faraday-cage on the other hand, exploits the nature of electical current to flow on the outside of the conductor it's using; this is one of the reasons why it doesn't make sense to make the conductors in electrical-transmission grids larger than what they are now -- it doesn't increase the current-carrying capacity. A car in an electrical storm is one example of this, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the tyres; if a bolt of lightning is gone to travel 2 or 3 miles Earthward from a cloud a set of Michelins is not going to stop it. The actual effect will be a direct arc from the lowest piece of the underbody to ground; the folks inside the car will be fine by virtue of all the current flowing on the outside of the frame (note: convertibles are dangerous in this regard) -- they may need to change their undergarments afterwards, but that's it.
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Re: Live Steam

Post by Tor »

Carl wrote:A car in an electrical storm is one example of this, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the tyres; if a bolt of lightning is gone to travel 2 or 3 miles Earthward from a cloud a set of Michelins is not going to stop it. The actual effect will be a direct arc from the lowest piece of the underbody to ground; the folks inside the car will be fine by virtue of all the current flowing on the outside of the frame
Ack, you're right.
CRFriend wrote:The punk whacking a pigeon off a charged catenary would likely not get fried because the voltages involved would likely not be able to make him part of a circuit between said catenary and the covered non-skid and painted surfaces of the tram itself. 600 VDC is not enough to ionize the surrounding substances, so an arc is not possible; one needs a direct low-resistance path.
I'll still keep my pole either well insulated or keep away entirely. DC might be less hazardous to the body, but I've seen 277VAC make a loud noise and a dark mark in painted metal - if it doesn't trip the breaker as well. Hmmm... 277VAC is somewhere around 500V peak IIRC, but that's still less than the wire. It is indoor ceiling (light fixtures) that I've dealt with, though. Not fun in the least to get zapped by. Typically 277 will leave a little burn where it gets you.

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skirted_in_SF
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Re: Live Steam

Post by skirted_in_SF »

crfriend wrote:600 VDC is not enough to ionize the surrounding substances, so an arc is not possible; one needs a direct low-resistance path.
Hate to quibble, but I used to live across the street from one of the SF Municipal Railway's trolly bus yards and departing buses traversing a very complex set of crossings would frequently draw arcs several inches long if one of the poles had a mishap. The resulting flash would light my living room up like a nearby lightening bolt.
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