Looking for my English backgrounds

[Since1982]

Can anyone living in England look me up a company that specializes in last names and the history of them in the British Isles including Scotland and Wales, where I've been told I have relatives from? My Scottish relatives originate in the Fraser clans. One of my surnames of my father's line was "Norwood" and I've been told it was a mixture of English, (hunters) and Vikings (attacking the English women and raping them in the period of 800-1100 AD and therefore creating two different last names, One was from the term North Woodsman(Vikings) which became Norwood and a common English last name, Wood or Woods. Any help would be very helpful for my quest. I've already traced down lines from North America of mixed French and Iriquois Indians and Dutch lines that were mixed with the Iriquois also, leading down to the last name of Haas, which is Rabbit in Dutch. This part came from eastern Canada and northeastern United States of the northernmost part of the USA.

Any help would be deeply appreciated.

[RichardA]

http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Norwood

[skirtingtoday]

Here are a few for starters - hope it is of some use:-

http://www.houseofnames.com/fraser-family-crest

http://www.scotclans.com/scottish_clans ... story.html

http://www.fraserchief.co.uk/history.html

BTW, my wife is also linked to the Fraser clan on her mothers side... I have done a bit of family tree research on that a while ago and think I can go back to early 1800's

[Ray]

Skip, you are getting your countries mixed up again. I highly doubt that a connection to the Fraser clan has anything to do with England; that's a Scottish name. Additonally, it's not just the English who might be able to assist; anyone in the United Kingdom should be able to help given your information.

Back to the Geography books for you!

[skirtyscot]

Ahem, Ray, he said "the British Isles including Scotland and Wales, where I've been told I have relatives from? My Scottish relatives originate in the Fraser clans." So I think he knows the difference (unlike many foreigners).

[Ray]

I'm not sure. The header of the post refers to English background yet Skip clearly has links to more than just England. Therefore there is clear confusion. Also, asking just those in England for help when - again - there are clear family ties to other parts of the UK is surely evidence again, that Skip is confusing England with Britain / the UK?

I stand by my comment. I will also try to provide some useful links.

[Since1982]

that Skip is confusing England with Britain / the UK?

I don't know much about England, having been raised only watching movies about France/English wars and neither was referred to by the general populace of the USA as anything but England and France, not the UK or British Isles or anything else. I've only heard those titles for the last 20 year or so. And more so since I found the skirtcafe.org in 2004. Most stories I've heard about "England" was from when they were attacking and trying to re-own "The colonies", which we are no longer called unless someone just wants to be insulting. Most don't though..

[Ray]

The word "England" is certainly a historic word used for the UK, but always incorrectly so. It's like calling the US California. Only the ignorant use the phrase now to describe the UK. Regrettably that includes a huge swathe of those in England itself. You will not find Scots using the word England to describe the UK. Many of us are quite offended to find our country somehow being annexed to another country, and indeed being absorbed in that other country.

[skirtingtoday]

Perhaps a short history lesson is in order:-

England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland were all separate countries until 1536 when there was an Act of Union between Wales and England. Later in 1707, there was a second Act of Union when Scotland joined England and Wales. This group was known as the Kingdom of Great Britain.

Later still, in 1801, the Irish Parliament voted to join this Union which became known as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. However, in 1922, most of the southern counties chose Independence leaving a small section who wished to remain in the Union (Northern Ireland). The name then changed to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

All of this leaves a clutch of different and (to an outsider) confusing series of names.

Great Britain (GB) included England, Wales and Scotland. (It is the combination of the two kingdoms of Scotland and England and the Principality of Wales)
United Kingdom (UK) is now taken to be England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
British Isles includes all in the UK and the Republic of Ireland (aka Eire).

The name Britain was the name made popular by the Romans when they came to the British Isles. The Romans took over England and Wales but only for a time part of Southern Scotland with a few forays into Aberdeenshire before retiring to the Antonine wall across the Forth and Clyde valleys. Scotland was never completely conquered by the Romans. They later fell back to the more well known Hadrian's wall (essentially on the boundary of Scotland and England)

Great Britain and the United Kingdom are often treated as the same but as noted above, the countries included ARE different.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all have separate Parliaments which discuss local issues covering Health Service, Law, Education and Agriculture. England has NO such parliament and relies on the UK government in Westminster to discuss English laws. This causes some concern and raised the Scottish Question” – which is that Scots (and Welsh and N Irish) can vote on purely English Laws whereas the reverse does not happen. No English Member of Parliament can vote in the Cottish, Welsh or N. Irish Parliaments.

There is currently debate going on for further devolved powers (which would give tax raising powers to Scotland) or indeed complete Independence from the UK to be decided in a vote in 2014.

Getting back to the topic in Skip’s original question, it is no wonder he assumes England is Britain as for many decades they were treated as synonymous and the same thing. Many English believed the same thing. Also whenever, we (as Scots) travelled overseas, and Passports are required to be shown, the holiday reps (from England) called for “Everyone with English Passports, come to me”. We asked when did England first produce passports and secondly, would Scots be able to join them with our British Passports? The looks we got from them were a wonder to behold!

At every English football, match for instance, the Union flag fluttered. Even today, the English anthem is sung at the start of matches is the UK anthem though most of the Union flags have now changed to the correct flag of St George.

One final grouse, why is it when we Scots arrive in England with Scottish Banknotes (Did I mention that the Banks are also Independent and the Royal Bank of Scotland – RBS, the Bank of Scotland and the Clydesdale Bank can all produce their own notes) they EVERY time are looked on as though they were illegal tender and a look to a colleague, “Is this ok?”. Imagine the furore by Englishman travelling in Scotland if every English banknote was scrutinised for fraudulence!

Anyway, here endeth the lesson and I am now off the soap-box.

I am glad that Ray appreciates that there are differences between England, the UK and GB. As he said himself, there is a large swathe in England itself who believe that they are all one and the same. Perhaps full Independence will wake them up and make them realise the fact. Who knows? Perhaps too this short diatribe will help in it own small way?

(not sure if this post is too long)

[Milfmog]

Interesting post, but not entirely consistent with what I was taught; namely that Great Britain is not and never was a country name; it is the name of the biggest island in the group that collectively makes up the British Isles (Ireland being the second largest island). Much of the confusion arises from mixing up the names of geographic regions and political entities, something the various peoples of these islands regularly get wrong, and if we can't manage, what chance has Johnny Foreigner got?

Have fun,


Ian.

[Big and Bashful]

Perhaps a short history lesson is in order:-


One final grouse, why is it when we Scots arrive in England with Scottish Banknotes (Did I mention that the Banks are also Independent and the Royal Bank of Scotland – RBS, the Bank of Scotland and the Clydesdale Bank can all produce their own notes) they EVERY time are looked on as though they were illegal tender and a look to a colleague, “Is this ok?”. Imagine the furore by Englishman travelling in Scotland if every English banknote was scrutinised for fraudulence!


(not sure if this post is too long)

A friend of mine had problems getting somewhere in Engerlandshire to take one of his Scottish notes, they eventually said that they would accept his money if it said "Sterling" on it. Now look at some Scottish notes, now look at some English notes; which are the ones which say they are "sterling"? I give you a clue, it isn't English money...

[Big and Bashful]

Interesting post, but not entirely consistent with what I was taught; namely that Great Britain is not and never was a country name; it is the name of the biggest island in the group that collectively makes up the British Isles (Ireland being the second largest island). Much of the confusion arises from mixing up the names of geographic regions and political entities, something the various peoples of these islands regularly get wrong, and if we can't manage, what chance has Johnny Foreigner got?

Have fun,


Ian.

Erm, does that mean that Skye, Barra, Anglesey, the Isle of Wight and all the other bits from our frayed edges are not part of Great Britain? I am not trying to pick holes in your statement, I honestly have never thought about it and do not know.

[Ray]

That is my understanding. Great Britain is a geographical definition, not a political one. Having an Olympic team named after just part of the UK is dumb, but that's what we have. It should be the UK Olympic team but isn't.

[Milfmog]

...Great Britain is... ...the name of the biggest island in the group that collectively makes up the British Isles

Erm, does that mean that Skye, Barra, Anglesey, the Isle of Wight and all the other bits from our frayed edges are not part of Great Britain? I am not trying to pick holes in your statement, I honestly have never thought about it and do not know.

Yup. They are islands in the British Isles but no more a part of Great Britain than the Isle of Man or even the Falklands. They are of course part of the United Kingdom of GBNI. Confusing huh?

Having an Olympic team named after just part of the UK is dumb, but that's what we have. It should be the UK Olympic team but isn't.

Daft isn't it, but there are very few folks who have ever bothered to understand the difference between all our different geographic and geopolitical regions. I might add that Ireland does not fare much better, the constitution names the country "Ireland" (in English, Eire in their own strange garbled dialect) but there was an act passed in 1947 that named the country as the Republic of Ireland* this appears to be the most recent, and therefore current, name. However the Passports they issue refer only to Ireland.

Have fun,

Ian.

* PS Don't confuse this with the Irish Republic, a self-declared political entity that existed for a few years before Ireland gained independence from the UK (apologies for the shorthand name) The Irish Republic never gained international recognition.

[Milfmog]

One final grouse, why is it when we Scots arrive in England with Scottish Banknotes (Did I mention that the Banks are also Independent and the Royal Bank of Scotland – RBS, the Bank of Scotland and the Clydesdale Bank can all produce their own notes) they EVERY time are looked on as though they were illegal tender and a look to a colleague, “Is this ok?”. Imagine the furore by Englishman travelling in Scotland if every English banknote was scrutinised for fraudulence!

I'll propose two suggestions for this:

1: Familiarity. Few Scottish notes ever make it into England and with three different companies issuing them it is not surprising if folks don't recognise them.

2: The Scottish notes are relatively easy to forge as they contain far fewer security features than English notes. (I offer this perspective as an employee of the company that prints the vast majority of Scottish and English banknotes, as well as currencies for over 150 other countries.)

As an aside I would point out that when in Egypt a few years ago a girl in our group was from Northern Ireland and had some of the NI notes. The Egyptian banks would not touch them but were quite happy with English or Scottish notes. I ended up with a fistful of the NI stuff when I got back to Blighty and had to take them to a bank and change them as few folks here had ever seen a NI note before and no one wanted them.

Have fun,


Ian.