Mainly for musicians...first impression of the Roland AT350C

[mugman]

My initial test drive on the Roland Atelier AT350C Combo Organ.



Having found my way fairly quickly around the Roland AT350C organ it is quite clear this isn't an organ that can be easily used for concise voicing on the fly...either creative gigging or playing off the cuff music where particular styles/voices are essentially required without keeping any audience waiting while you fumble with the buttons. Apart from the Hammond type drawbars which of course can be quickly changed as one plays it as a typical organ, the rest of the voicing from solo voices (sax, flute, etc) through to orchestral (strings etc) and everything in between is a very long-winded multi button pressing situation. This due to there not being any individual direct access buttons for anything apart from a very small selection of direct access solo voices which might be used in a more lazy way.

Luckily this is fine for me as I tend to spend time creating sets of registrations to my liking for various uses anyway, which can then be stored as usual on a USB stick, with the loading of any set then being virtually instant. For jamming purposes with the other players in my circle of friends I can simply call up any registration set and either not use a rhythm style which I might have connected it with or, if playing solo, activate the rhythm style as usual.

My method of registration storage on USB memory stick uses fast to find folders for each type of music (jazz, Latin, pop, theater organ etc) within which different registration styles are then placed. It seems to work well.

I can't however see the instrument being popular with, for instance, the thousands of average Tyros players...there are no comic style colourful pictures on a display, and no fairy lights everywhere. The AT350C is what I would call a studio musician's styling which isn't based on homely looking graphics to look pretty. This is OK as it sets the AT350C apart from the keyboard consumer brigade's idea of home entertainment based imagery and technology. I like plain.

One irritation though is that it is very easy to unintentionally touch and trigger the row of buttons between the two manuals when playing, which is annoying, and is probably something I shall have to seriously look out for. When playing the black keys my fingers do tend to move dangerously towards the back of the key if I'm not paying attention. When getting jazzy I am apt to become a lot looser in my finger positioning. Some of the chords are so convoluted I tend to add expressive fingering to match which can get me triggering a rear button by accident.

After quite a few hours of exploring the voices, styles and choice of the parameters available the organ should be an excellent addition to my gear as a main instrument. It can also be used with the Roland backing module BK-7M which I already have, adding if desired hundreds more voices and styles, though it then becomes necessary to pre-programme this unit as well because finding voices quickly on it is also impossible. Linked with a keyboard I used in the past two footswitches mounted one above the other (so the keyboard and backing module both work together when pressed) and then a set of registrations matched between the organ and backing module can be stepped through in sync. The AT350C doesn't really need any extra backing, but some of the voices on it (sax particularly) are not as convincing as on the BK-7M unit. In fact for the price of the organ I would have expected a far better quality and selection of voicing. The unconvincing vibrato on one of the sax's has a very dated 1980's sound and it's puzzling that the techs at Roland have allowed this to be included in a 2011 model. In my opinion, Roland's description of some of the voices being 'Supernatural' is optimistic. Compared with some of Yamaha's Tyros super realistic voicing the Roland stable of voicing is, to my ears, left behind by several years. This mainly includes a good few of their wind instrument emulations. I may be wrong, but I don't think that Roland use many 'sampled' voices from the real thing, like Yamaha do, or if they do then they are very short and doctored to repeat a vibrato in a mechanical way. There are no built-in typical of instrument inflections that I've come across yet.

The technology appears to be noticeably dated.

My conclusions are that with careful selection of voicing, which by the way is already pre-set in stereo (something I found to be extra work on the Tyros where everything is placed 'centre stage' and has to be panned to left, centre or right for the best effect), the organ can however sound very full and up there with some of those costing a few more thousand. It just requires more patience to tweak the sounds.

So after initial impressions I award the instrument overall something like 7 out of 10 for my own personal playing requirements. Any negative issues I shall have to live with.

At the risk of all that being very boring to the average reader, it was mostly meant for any organ/keyboarding kiltist/skirtist musicians we might have attracted to this small corner of the www.


Pete

[Uncle Al]

Hi Pete

Sounds like you're "getting into it"

I agree, some sounds may need "tweeking" but that is true with
almost all keyboards. My KORG i30 has a touch screen as well as
an array of voices selected by 'bank' and 'number'. I have 2 voice
buttons which allows me to play either voice separately or together.
When played separately, the non-used voice can be changed.
It's a neat trick if done correctly(and quickly). I really enjoy using
the Big Band Swing on Accomp and the Sax ensemble(1st voice) with
clarinet(2nd voice) for the Solo(melody) voicing.
Really gives it "The Glenn Miller Sound"

Did you get a 13, 20 or 25 note pedal board with it Expression pedal
Sustain pedal when using the piano voice

Enquiring Minds(nosy ol' farts, errr...people) want to know

Uncle Al

[mugman]

Hi Uncle Al. I got the Roland PK-6 13 note pedalboard which was expense enough for the moment. Anything with more pedals I wouldn't be used to anyway. It suffices admirably. Also I use just an expression pedal EV-5, and a Yamaha switch pedal which I can use to cut in the rotary fast/slow emulation, or alternatively drum breaks if not using the organ sounds.
The organ was acquired at almost £1000 off as it's an ex-demo model, but in pristine shape...I just couldn't let the opportunity slip by, especially as my previous setup of Hammond XE1 organ has not been 100% attractive to me. A two hour concert played on it of mixed light music would have been trying as it hasn't nearly enough potential for that requirement.
Something I forgot to mention is that on the AT350C it's possible to layer eight voices across the manuals and pedals combined, using both orchestral and drawbar organ modes together. Therefore if the whole spectrum of instrument voicing is planned out from piccolo down to tuba, a huge orchestral wall of sound is achieved. Great for powerful finales. I know I'm going to enjoy using the possibilities of this product.
The Glenn Miller sounding efforts I've so far achieved I'm thrilled with using harmony settings for banks of saxes etc. The intros and endings I don't overuse as they can become bland, but it makes an agreeable change to hear different phrasing in these from the often overkilled Yamaha Tyros ones. Locally to me there are at least six players with various Tyros models, which are almost the automatic choice at the moment due to Yamaha's style of 'must have' marketing. Tyros's pack a lot of good technology into a reasonably lightweight product, but I've been there and got the T-shirt, and wanted something else for a change. I do have a Yamaha 500w stereo amp/speakers package I kept back from a couple of years ago, so there's no shortage of volume possible for normal venues. Mind you, wearing a wool kilt tends to soak up some of the sound rather than reflect it!

If I get time I'll provide some short pieces exemplifying (I love that word) the nature of the beast through a box.net link at this thread. I can't do videos at the moment though as my camcorder hasn't a decent mic on it.

Pete

[mugman]

OK, here's a quickie...I don't know what the title is, but it was the theme tune to a TV wartime drama series. If anyone can tell me the name of the show I'd be grateful.
This is a sort of Glenn Millerish sound, bearing in mind I've only had the instrument a couple of days, so pressing the right buttons at the right time (let alone the right notes!) shows in the performance .

https://www.box.com/s/753e483488ea85221759

Pete

[Uncle Al]

BRAVO BRAVO

You're making me drool


Your 'voice' changes are quite similar to what I use
on the Theatre Organ. I have to set up the 'Divisionals'
as well as "Generals" but I don't have the selection of
voice types like the ones on your AT350C.

For the Sax Ensemble, I try to use 1 Baritone, 1 Tenor, and 1 Alto.
The "G.M Sound" is with the Clarinet layered on top. If I were
playing this on a pipe organ, I'd use a 16' Sax stop for the Baritone,
8' for the Tenor and 4' for the Alto. Then add the 8' Clarinet to the
mix. That's the arranger part of the 'multiple hat' equation.....

When you're playing this instrument, remember you are
wearing 4 hats - Musician, Composer, Arranger & Conductor.
Your MP3 file shows that you wear these hats quite well


Have fun (as if you're not )

Uncle Al


(Note to self - check on availability of a drooling smilie....)

[crfriend]

This is a sort of Glenn Millerish sound, bearing in mind I've only had the instrument a couple of days, so pressing the right buttons at the right time (let alone the right notes!) shows in the performance .

For something you've only had for "a couple of days" you acquit yourself remarkably well. Congratulations!

From what I can hear, the instrument does OK on most voices, but it's clear in others that one is listening to a synthesizer. From the image of it, one can tell that this is not the sort of instrument with all the "bang and flash" that most consumer-level gear has; this looks like a piece of workmans' kit that's designed to get the job done with as few distractions as possible. Nice score.

[mugman]

There is quite a bit of obvious synth in the choice of voicing which can be part and parcel of set voiced organs of this affordable calibre, as opposed to single manual arranger keyboards of around the same cost, where the synthesis can be adjusted - attack, delay, release, vibrato depth speed and delay, etc. On the Roland AT350C adjustments to provide a smoother mix sadly aren't available. The choice I used on this ad hoc tune was set up in about 5 minutes. There will probably be many better permutations available once I get further into it and spend the wet afternoons more creatively.

Or to achieve anything in the organ world that is more likely to fool the listener into thinking Glenn's orchestra is responsible, or the Royal Philharmonic is in town, simply add £,000???s to the asking price (I wish)...



...impressive, but not easy to cart off to the organ club!

Luckily the small audiences I get landed with occasionally (and vice versa) are well aware of the nature of hatchback-friendly music making, and of course my own clumsy limitations, and happily don't expect miracles.

Pete

[Kirbstone]

Bravissimo, Pete! Very professional. Couldn't put a name on the tune, though, but it's one I reckon I've heard before.

Changing voices is fun, and introduces a call & answer thing, widely used by the likes of Glen Miller in showbands. Makes for very pleasant listening. Thanks for that.
The four-manual cutie illustrated is just the thing for tucking under yer-arm going busking. Mind you, in order to read any music sitting at that thing you'd need binoculars!

T.

[mugman]

Thanks everyone by the way - where are my manners.

Read Music? What's that? Am I missing something ? No, I did begin to learn sight reading about 50 years ago but gave it up as a bad job having struggled up to Grade 4. Some of the professional UK organists who provide concerts for our club each month only play by ear, and some can do either. Being able to do both has always been a talent I envy.

Pete

[Kirbstone]

Aha, Pete,I see you're a midnight oil burner like me.

I did the sight reading thing as a boy and finished all my piano grades while still at school. A lot of the stuff I file away in my brain just has to come from music, as for the life of me I couldn't dissect it all by ear. I won't sight read in public, though. I never got that confident, and in our musical party circle we have a few music teachers who do this, and I marvel at it.
In Hampshire I ran the music for a society for a dozen years, but very fortunately had the services of an ex Royal Ballet rehearsal pianist, who would perform EVERYTHING straight off the page. Now that's impressive. He also could memorise stuff, & he's still around in his late seventies.

When I'm into medleys for parties &c. most of my stuff is my own arrangements of show & swing tunes &c, but I do still sprinkle in a lot of romantic Classical stuff, which means referring to the original scores in private so I tend to go over those enough to memorise them....Bach, Liszt, Rachmaninov, Debussy, Schubert &c.&c.
I also find, as on piano the option of voice changes doesn't arise, that each successive tune, and sometimes in the middle of a tune a key change is in order. I work out medleys a bit like the Classical composers of old...marching up the keys, so having finished off something in, say, D Major, the connecting chord is B flat 7 and/or augmented 5th, leading into E flat, then at the end of the next tune a B 7th gets us into E major &c. I bet that would wow them in an organ recital too, with the added interest of voice changes. Homework!

T.

[Uncle Al]

OK Pete - I give

I can't magnify the page enough to read the brand of instrument.
This looks like a WERSI, but I've never seen a 4 manual WERSI.

What is it

Uncle Al

[mugman]

It's Franz Lambert's Wersi NS1, Uncle Al. I used to like his music of the 80's up until he introduced female choir accompaniment. What was reasonable for a middle aged listener into electronic organs, quickly turned into shopping mall music. It always amuses me that most of his more recent album covers are sexed up and show a gathering of young female party goers (who I'm sure would rather be at the disco given a choice) with big false smiles, surrounding an organ and a grinning Franz. Maybe that happens in Germany. Certainly not in the UK - either that, or I'm going to the wrong places. It's very uncool to play an electronic organ in the UK, which is why I do. But Franz's fellow countryman Klaus Wunderlich (sadly no longer with us) stuck to his guns and left the rest to his amazing playing to sell the goods.

Kirbstone - I like using key changes too, and always with a melody of a few different numbers, for added variety. The nearest I've come to classical music is probably with the more defined and shorter melodies/works of Elgar (Chanson de Matin, etc). I've yet to try something like those out with theatre organ voicing.

I still catch each week's "The Organist Entertains" on Radio 2 (via iPlayer) but wish they would slip in more electronic organ material rather than all theatre or church. I'm told it's something to do with the Musician's Union which presumably has a lot to do with electronic organs apparently doing individual musicians out of business. How true that is I don't know. I suspect that computerisation has put a lot more people out of business than it has done in the music industry (myself included) but we still get on with life - find another occupation, whatever. Sorry, a hint of sour grapes creeping in there.


Pete

[Kirbstone]

Yes, I didn't mention Sir Edward in my Rogues Gallery of Dead composers, but you hit the nail on the head there. His Chanson du Matin is an all-time favourite of mine, as is Salut d'Amour, and both those would fit in with any medley of contemporary stuff very well. My Chanson is in G, while my Salut is in E, so the ol' B7/5+ in between works the change nicely.
I also grapple with his Pomp & Circumstance stuff and can bore the pants off everyone with 'Nimrod', which is getting a bit churchy. For those I do need to have the black dots just to remind my of where I am. There's no way I'd play them often enough to get them off by heart!

T.