How we are considered by how we speak!

[Since1982]

Considering how serious we are taken as intelligent men in skirts. I would think we should consider how we are thought of as men in skirts IF we seem to be illiterate and/or ignorant or bright and literate. Are we considered as just ignorant men that can't find their pants on the floor or highly intelligent men who are starting a new style of men's clothes? The better we spell, pronounce and elucidate, the more likely we are to be taken seriously in our skirts.

Opinions?:

[RichardA]

I don't think we will be ever taken seriously in our skirts IMO not unless the media pushes it and most will look at it as a joke. Fashion design has tried, but not hard enough, but why should they after all you only make clothes that will sell to the masses compared a few thousands world wide, but saying that, I bet there are a lot of us that only wear skirts at home and would come outside if more men wore them. Climate change may help if it got hotter, but most men would just turn to shorts, when I lived in Australia I was surprised to see my bank manger in shorts worn with long socks and a light weight short sleeved jacket.
It would be nice if it was excepted as the norm, but it won't happen in my time.

[Big and Bashful]

Considering how serious we are taken as intelligent men in skirts. I would think we should consider how we are thought of as men in skirts IF we seem to be illiterate and/or ignorant or bright and literate. Are we considered as just ignorant men that can't find their pants on the floor or highly intelligent men who are starting a new style of men's clothes? The better we spell, pronounce and elucidate, the more likely we are to be taken seriously in our skirts.

Opinions?:

Skip, I agree, I do find it hard to take anyone seriously who can't make the effort to look at what they have typed before submitting it. I tend to ignore badly written comments, I hate people who have to SHOUT THEIR COMMENTS and my biggest pet hate is txt spk. Maybe you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, but I agree that if you want to be taken seriously, it pays to put a bit of effort in.

[sapphire]

Skip,
In general I agree with you, we tend to be judged by our proficiency with the language.

However, out in the general population, functional illiteracy is rampant. Some level of typos are to be expected anywhere, but I have had managers who had small grasp of the language. Back in the bad old days, I had a manager who had slept her way to her position and was a functional illiterate. Back in that day, I was even more outspoken than I am now and continually corrected her grammar. She was so rattled that she would leave notes for me. I would respond in writing with corrections to her grammar highlighted in red.

When I was teaching computer science, I always assigned a paper as the first assignment and then graded it as an English professor would. That was a complete shock to the freshmen at the community college. Most of them failed their first assignment.

Just my bad attitude.
Sapphire

[crfriend]

I don't think we will be ever taken seriously in our skirts IMO not unless the media pushes it and most will look at it as a joke.

This is a complex and dynamic equation, and as such expected and observed effects may vary widely. That said, my personal experience indicates that once the initial shock wears off what one wears is largely immaterial so long as it meshes well with the general situation. Demeanour and poise also factor strongly into this; if one is confident and eloquent one will receive vastly less grief than if one behaves timidly or cannot express a cogent view of things. It's all in one's overall behaviour and appearance: if one presents a well put-together look and expresses himself cogently and confidently the odds of getting viewed as "a joke" are vanishingly small.

I wear skirts "out and about" on a very regular basis, and have done so in many millieux including work and Town Meetings (a quaint form of New England government). Aside from an occasional jab from pals, I have never experienced any serious opposition to my attire.

To Skip's comment, all I can do is broadly agree. If we are to be "different" for any reason we need to be at the top of our game elsewhere to deflect any criticism. This includes, but is not limited to, eloquence and skill with the language. Note that "language" in this case means more than the spoken (or written) one -- it also includes the "visual language" of how we put our clothes together. If we put outfits together that look like a blind drunk did so in a hurricane we will be viewed as a joke and (rightfully) get laughed at. If we put things together in a pleasant and refined manner, and back that up with poise and eloquence, we will laugh with those who would detract because their opinion can likely be swayed with gentle encouragement.

It would be nice if [an alternate to trousers] was excepted as the norm, but it won't happen in my time.

That sounds suspiciously like somebody formulating a self-fulfilling prophecy. If that is what you believe, that is what you will project -- and other folks will pick up on that.

Sally forth with confidence and conviction. If you cannot, stick to trousers or remain in the confines of your closeted existence for you will be doing the rest of us no favours.

[Since1982]

Thank you, folks..Carl, thank you for bringing in the "visual language" thought. I didn't think of that, although I should have. As far as clothing changes happening in a few years, it won't. No changes in either male or female clothing styles has happened in a short time. To get people changing their "LOOK" they need to see someone they respect or emulate to start wearing something different, like David Beckham and his sarongs or all the massive changes in England in the time of Henry VIII.. It's hard not to follow the styles of a king that shows his displeasure with beheadings. I think the recent (last 40 years) jump into kilts by non-Scottish, Irish or Welsh men might have something to do with movies like "The Quiet Man, Rob Roy or Braveheart" regardless of how correct they were historically, or Prince Charles of the UK, who likes his kilts. There was a horse race in "The Quiet Man" with several Irish boys in dark blue kilts and Tams assisting the ladies and their hats.

All the various garishly colored kilts of the audience at Rugby and Soccer matches lately helps too. Like Flourescent green and black kilted screamers of one of the Soccer teams, (I don't know the name of the team). Skirts for men will come back again, it won't happen in my lifetime but I'm sure someday all of us "pioneers" will be listed in museums and books as the MEN who started our fashions and brought MANLY skirts back to the men of the Western world.

[crfriend]

Carl, thank you for bringing in the "visual language" thought. I didn't think of that, although I should have.

You're quite welcome.

The notion of the "visual language" has been a recurring theme of mine for several years. For a very long time before that the thought was a nascent one, but it finally crystallised into to its current form during a conversation with Bob (the Barista Emeritus) several years ago when we were discussing the direction he wanted to take the Cafe in. The notion of the "language", in as few words as I can state it, is that the notion of skirts (or kilts) for guys is that the whole has to work -- in other words, it's much more than merely swapping skirts for trousers because there are other clothing elements that sometimes don't work as well with skirts as with trousers, and if the whole look is "off" then none of it works. If it's "off" it generates a "visual dissonance" that bothers viewers and puts them off the notion quickly and firmly.

What "works" will naturally vary from man to man; it will vary because of personal taste, how adventurous he might be, what millieux he is operating in, and what his body shape is like. Deciding on a look will be a deeply personal choice that he, and he alone, must make. That there are no "rules" in place at the moment is simultaneously a blessing and a curse; on the one hand, it allows a positively vast range of options, but on the other hand, that vast range of options coupled with a lack of any cogent guidance means the possibilities for abject failure are legion. ("Failure" in this regard indicates the overall look not "working".)

As far as clothing changes happening in a few years, it won't. No changes in either male or female clothing styles has happened in a short time. To get people changing their "LOOK" they need to see someone they respect or emulate to start wearing something different, like David Beckham and his sarongs or all the massive changes in England in the time of Henry VIII.

I would beg to differ. That things change slowly is axiomatic; inertia is very strong, and the tendency to "dumb things down" is very potent (hence T-shirts and jeans as the uniform). I do not believe that we need celebrities like Beckham (who, recall, rabbitted when confronted by the photographers when he was wearing his sarong) nor sovereigns to drive the notion; on the contrary, I believe that we need to drive it "from the bottom up". The lads who go to footy games wearing kilts in "casual mode" are a good start -- but the notion needs to be broader than that. It would be sad to have the notion of men in kilts be only for uber-casual sporting events, or sarongs only on the beach would be rather sad in the big picture.

Skirts for men will come back again, it won't happen in my lifetime but I'm sure someday all of us "pioneers" will be listed in museums and books as the MEN who started our fashions and brought MANLY skirts back to the men of the Western world.

The magic here is that every time you present yourself well in a skirted or kilted look you are an agent of change; the simple act speaks loudly (in the visual language) and if you can back that up in other aspects the overall image can be compelling to the witness and onlooker. Don't view it as a challenge, view it as an opportunity.