Someone for Everyone

[Stu]

So far as I am concerned, this is not really about men in skirts, but there is a connection.

I have a student in one of my classes called Stefan. To say that Stefan is an extrovert is an understatement - he is so "loud" and overpowering that it can be tiring just to be in his company! He is also a transsexual or, rather, I assumed he was. I have never actually seen him in a skirt or dress, but everything he wears is feminine - leggings, skinny jeans, pink velvet pants, girls' tops and shoes etc. He wears full, and rather gaudy, make-up and has a very feminine hairstyle, often adorned with sparky ties and even bows. He also carries a girl's bag. His speech style is affected and as camp as a drag act, and he is quite short in height, around 5'5", and very scrawny built.

Last night, I wandered into the city centre where there was the annual even of St. Lucia (a sort of early Christmas festival here in Sweden) and the shops open on a Sunday between 4pm and 8pm to show off their Christmas decorations. It was freezing cold and snow was falling, adding to the Christmas atmosphere. I noticed a couple embracing and kissing passionately in a shop doorway while I was standing watching some carol singers - it was tall young man and a much shorter woman. When they had finished, the woman scurried towards me shouting "Hey! Stu!" and I saw that it was Stefan. He was wearing a long, pale coat, with huge buttons (obviously a woman's coat), furry boots and a woman's matching furry hat and mittens. I couldn't see what he had on under his coat, except a couple of inches of thick tights, so he could have been wearing a skirt or not. He then introduced his companion as "my girlfriend, Cecilia" - the 6'2" strapping young man I thought Stefan was with was actually a 6'2" strapping young woman! Cecilia was broad shouldered and square jawed, with cropped hair and was wearing a lumberjack coat. I chatted to them both for a few minutes. I asked Cecilia if she were a student too, and she said she wasn't - she was a self-employed roofing contractor. As we parted, Cecilia gave me a firm, manly handshake and Stefan insisted on giving me a hug, and off they went.

This morning I was in the university and I saw Stefan (by pure coincidence, as I wasn't scheduled to teach him today). He said:

Stefan: "So what do you think of Cecilia, then?"

Me (struggling to find the words) "She seems like a sweet girl."

Stefan: "Well, she's NOT a sweet girl. She's big, and she's butch, and she's GORGEOUS!"

I smiled.

Stefan: (whispering) "....And she's all mine!" And off he went, chuckling.

I really don't know what to make of that. I had assumed Stefan was transsexual, except for two things. The first was that the only transsexuals i have ever met in the past have been quite reserved, almost demure, whereas Stefan is right in your face, so he wasn't conforming to my limited past experience of transsexuals! Secondly, a transsexual who wears 100% female garb and make-up would, I imagine, use a female name, not an unequivocally male name like "Stefan". That made me wonder if he were gay and just extremely camp. Now I realise that both assumptions were probably wide of the mark. He is just a hugely effeminate man who has managed to find a female partner who is complementary. They always say that there is someone for everyone!

Stu

[Milfmog]

Nice post Stu, thanks for that.

I always get a bit of a buzz when my assumptions are shaken and then put back together and it sounds as though that is exactly what happened to you in this case. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Have fun,


Ian.

[couyalair]

Interesting story.
I am not keen on people that are so far over the top as these two are, but I do like to hear about people that are strong enough to step outside the box.
Having the courage of one's convictions is great, but I can well imagine Stefan to be somewaht overpowering -- which is not really that pleasant.

Martin

[JRMILLER]

Martin wrote:

I am not keen on people that are so far over the top as these two are

I am inclined to agree with you Martin, it strikes me the same way. However, I suspect other folks view skirt wearing men as "over the top" too. This story is an opportunity for us to examine our own beliefs and try to understand why it bothers us. Gaining that understanding will help us in our daily lives and also give us a perspective into what other people are squawking about when they see us walking around in skirts....

[crfriend]

I am inclined to agree with [...] Martin, it strikes me the same way. However, I suspect other folks view skirt wearing men as "over the top" too.

I admit to recoilling a bit upon reading Stu's post, but that's because I seem to have a need to almost immediately classify "things" (be they objects, people, or actions) into a more or less rigid framework, and to be able to do so easily. For gender, these for me are "unambiguously male", "unambiguously female", "ambiguous/androgynous", and "unknown" (aka, "what in blazes is that?"). I am perfectly comfortable with the first two; OK, for the most part, with the third; but am outright weirded out by the last. The individuals portrayed in Stu's post both punched the "unknown" button, and rather forcefully at that.

This story is an opportunity for us to examine our own beliefs and try to understand why it bothers us. Gaining that understanding will help us in our daily lives and also give us a perspective into what other people are squawking about when they see us walking around in skirts....

In that context, it may be a useful exercise. I do not know precisely why I react the way I do, but there it is, and I just have to keep it in check behaviourally in public settings. This notion may drive the way I try to appear when I am wearing a skirt; I want to avoid -- at all costs -- the possibility of someone else who may share my "classification system" from lumping me into the "unknown" category because they may not be able to restrain their internal disdain.

Ultimately, I suspect that this discussion will loop around to "what does it mean to be a man" and "why does it matter" -- something we seem to be having difficulty quantifying. Maybe it's time to brush up on philosophy. Perhaps some great thinker in an age gone by came up with something applicable to the modern era.

[Stu]

Nice to see my anecdote has stimulated some discussion.

The only "lesson" I would say I learned from this was not to make assumptions about people. However, it has left me pondering some things and I wondered how far they would or could take this apparent role reversal. What would a wedding and subsequent married life between Stefan and Cecilia look like? What would their family arrangements be like if they had children? What kinds of role models would they be for their children and what problems would it cause for them? Would they, for example, be allowed to adopt children? This would be a straight marriage, yet would probably be more problematic for them than if they had been in a same-sex union.

This isn't really a Men-in-Skirts topic, I know, but the confidence of this young couple to face the world and not be limited by accepted gender roles rather puts what we do, i.e. challenge just a single fashion taboo, into some perspective.

Stu

[couyalair]

My words "over the top" referred to this :

"he is so "loud" and overpowering that it can be tiring just to be in his company! ... leggings, skinny jeans, pink velvet pants, girls' tops and shoes etc. He wears full, and rather gaudy, make-up ... His speech style is affected and as camp as a drag act ..."

rather than to who his companions are or what he does with them.

Gaudy make-up and speech affections are for the theatre; in real life, I've never been keen on what we used to call "showing off". But I suppose for many people our mugs are just as much an affection.
I'm sure they think I wear colourful kilts just to draw attention to myself.

If these two people are of different sexes, I don't see why they should not produce and raise children as well, or as badly, as anyone else. I think Stu's reference to transsexuality was his hasty assumption, no?


Martin

[Stu]

You seem to have misunderstood my post or, at the very least, read things into which were not intended. I have no problem with Stefan being such an extrovert - OK, he can wear you down after a while, but he's always jolly and interesting and has something to say. Cecilia seemed a quieter and more thoughtful character, but I didn't really get chance to know her in the short time.

There is absolutely no reason at all why they should not marry and produce children - I have found that, as a student of mine, Stefan is a conscientious and trustworthy young man and if Cecilia has started her own business building and repairing roofs, then she is clearly someone who has initiative and is not afraid of hard work. I would wish them every success and I'm sure that they would find that success. I was simply musing how far they would take the role-reversal. Would they tone it down and become more conventional? Or would they go the whole hog and completely defy conventions? I could more easily imagine Stefan being a bride than a groom at a wedding ceremony and I could better envisage Cecilia teaching her son to play football rather than her daughter to bake buns.

Yes, I did make a hasty assumption about Stefan being transsexual - that was a key point of my original post that I had been hasty and I have learned that I can be wrong about that. I have never seen Stefan wearing anything even remotely masculine - everything he wears, whether it is clothing, shoes, jewellery or cosmetics, and the accessories he carries like bags, purses and even his pink mobile phone is clearly designed for females, so perhaps my assumption is understandable. So the other key point is that if Stefan is so confident when dressed 100% in female garb etc, it puts into proportion what we do in simply adopting a single garment as a preferred option in our wardrobes.


Stu

[DALederle]

Who we are is such a complicated subject that it almost defies classification of any sort. People, whatever age they are, are products of heredity mixed with their personal experiences as defined by their environments.
Environment includes the cultural bias of society and often defines what our experiences are.
I'm sure that Stefan has an interesting background story of how he adapted to his life while growing up. He and his girlfriend may both be transsexuals of one sort or another. Maybe he will make her a fine wife some day.
But why worry if that's what they choose to do?
It just serves to show all of us not to get too smug in what we think we know.
Each of us is so individual as to be, almost but not quite, are own little specis, not alike from any other. We are one and alone all at the same time.
We should all embrace each other for that uniqueness in each other.
Wear what you want, live your own life to the fullest and NEVER lock back.
After all, something may be gaining on you! LOL
Don't worry! Be Happy!

Dennis A. Lederle
p.s.
As I get older I have more questions! No answers! Just more questions!

[Since1982]

I'm probably wrong but as I knew a few when I was in my teens, I'd assume Stefan is a "Bull Drag Queen"..In Fort Lauderdale Florida in the late 50's there was every kind of crossover including some that there are no more of.

[Stu]

"Bull Drag Queen" - I haven't encountered that expression before, but I guess it could be relevant to Stefan. I've never known a man who is that overtly effeminate to be straight before - it would never have occurred to me that he would be attracted to very manly, butch females. Similarly, had I met Cecilia in other circumstances, from the way she dressed, her hair, deportment and voice, I would have assumed she was most definitely a lesbian.

Shows how dangerous it can be to make assumptions and that you can't judge a book from its cover.

Stu