Oh Noble Freestylers,
I too agree that we should fight for our right to don our skirts where and when we choose. And I feel I have a cause to fight for! This will happen in our lifetimes!
Question -- how far can we realistically go into the femme realm with our selections without damaging the cause.
For instance, I found a nice floral skirt today. It has a background and is a mix of shades of purple and blue. I really liked it so I bought it, but is it too close to the "other realm" to be credible?
What of dresses and blouses? Stockings? Shoes?
Where do we draw the line?
-john
Skirt Choices
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BrotherTailor
I hear you JRMILLER (btw - are you Amish ancestry)
I'm always tempted in fabric stores...I see a bolt of some gorgeous floral material or deep green or red velvet and imagine all the wonderful dresses and skirts I could make for myself
My fantasy is to make a floor length green velvet evening gown...very full flowing skirt and a closely fitted bodice, sleeveless but with a fairly high neck (if that makes sense?) perhaps wear it with white gloves that cover most of the arm. The skirt will hide the feet. Yes...a good 8 to 10 yards of fifty dollar a yard velvet should do it nicely 
Then I give up the notion and buy some twill.
There are some good threads on here discussing just what you are concerned about, do some browsing in the Skirts and kilts for men forum maybe...?
I'm always tempted in fabric stores...I see a bolt of some gorgeous floral material or deep green or red velvet and imagine all the wonderful dresses and skirts I could make for myself
My fantasy is to make a floor length green velvet evening gown...very full flowing skirt and a closely fitted bodice, sleeveless but with a fairly high neck (if that makes sense?) perhaps wear it with white gloves that cover most of the arm. The skirt will hide the feet. Yes...a good 8 to 10 yards of fifty dollar a yard velvet should do it nicely Then I give up the notion and buy some twill.
There are some good threads on here discussing just what you are concerned about, do some browsing in the Skirts and kilts for men forum maybe...?
This is really enjoyable, as I too love the more "femme" clothing. But I would rather there be another word for it. More colourfull clothing sounds more correct. Wear what feels right for you, YOU. Not what you think the others would wear.
Be as colourful as you want. If you do it right, and combine the right clothes, it will "look right", "look good" and I'm NOT talking about looking masculine or feminine. Women must also dress well, to get the overall picture right, and even they don't get it completely right all the time. And that is only in the eyes of onlookers. But do you realise that actually you can get it PRECICELY right for yourself EVERY time? How? It's because there is no description for every person individually how he or she is to dress, and be dressed correctly. So even being naked, wearing only a tie, is being dressed correctly, although you may expect some feedback by doing that 
If you follow the general fashion that is active at the moment, looking carefully around you, especially at the women for inspiration, and not only what they wear, but in particular why, why it works. Not that your above the waist clothing has to be from the women's clothing racks, but is often more delicate, fits better. I get very complimentary comments from women all the time, no kidding. Luckily I have enough sweaters and skirts that match well, and by combining the right colours and some small details I apparently am doing it well. Which isn't easy for a man who hasn't done that for some 51 years! 
( I'm 52 now )
Wearing floral skirts is being very colourful, and we are not used to men doing that, but done tastefully, being yourself there's nothing wrong with that at all. Ive just bought a silk floral skirt myself, and have to wear it for the first time in public. But it's cold now and the skirt is very airy, so I'll see hwen it's a suitable day. That's when choices are made. We must keep listening to our inner self, and not shy away, thinking this is too much, which is a normal reaction, but is not right. That is still a remnant of the indoctrination we men have had all our lives up to now. It is hard to shake off. Living in a community where others, like travestites are a normal sight can make it easier, but also more difficult, as others may think you are one too. Nobody said it would be easy, and that's where forums like this one are worth their time in gold.
Men in floral skirts? why not, we wear floral shirts, ( Hawaian shirts ) so why not colourful skirts?
Peter v.
Be as colourful as you want. If you do it right, and combine the right clothes, it will "look right", "look good" and I'm NOT talking about looking masculine or feminine. Women must also dress well, to get the overall picture right, and even they don't get it completely right all the time. And that is only in the eyes of onlookers. But do you realise that actually you can get it PRECICELY right for yourself EVERY time? How? It's because there is no description for every person individually how he or she is to dress, and be dressed correctly. So even being naked, wearing only a tie, is being dressed correctly, although you may expect some feedback by doing that
If you follow the general fashion that is active at the moment, looking carefully around you, especially at the women for inspiration, and not only what they wear, but in particular why, why it works. Not that your above the waist clothing has to be from the women's clothing racks, but is often more delicate, fits better. I get very complimentary comments from women all the time, no kidding. Luckily I have enough sweaters and skirts that match well, and by combining the right colours and some small details I apparently am doing it well. Which isn't easy for a man who hasn't done that for some 51 years!
( I'm 52 now ) Wearing floral skirts is being very colourful, and we are not used to men doing that, but done tastefully, being yourself there's nothing wrong with that at all. Ive just bought a silk floral skirt myself, and have to wear it for the first time in public. But it's cold now and the skirt is very airy, so I'll see hwen it's a suitable day. That's when choices are made. We must keep listening to our inner self, and not shy away, thinking this is too much, which is a normal reaction, but is not right. That is still a remnant of the indoctrination we men have had all our lives up to now. It is hard to shake off. Living in a community where others, like travestites are a normal sight can make it easier, but also more difficult, as others may think you are one too. Nobody said it would be easy, and that's where forums like this one are worth their time in gold.
Men in floral skirts? why not, we wear floral shirts, ( Hawaian shirts ) so why not colourful skirts?
Peter v.
A man is the same man in a pair of pants or a skirt. It is only the way people look at him that makes the difference.
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BrotherTailor
Brother Tailor, go for it, be the colourful person you are inside. Only by actually doing it can we be it. Be our true selves. The fear of not doing what others expect from us lingers on. Getting rid of that takes time, but will only be driven away for good when we do what we ourselves want.BrotherTailor wrote:I hear you JRMILLER (btw - are you Amish ancestry)
I'm always tempted in fabric stores...I see a bolt of some gorgeous floral material or deep green or red velvet and imagine all the wonderful dresses and skirts I could make for myself
Then I give up the notion and buy some twill.
There are some good threads on here discussing just what you are concerned about, do some browsing in the Skirts and kilts for men forum maybe...?
I myself am still going on with my clothing, but I have only been wearing for a few months! I too just love many floral skirts. It's more the problem of what can I wear with them to make the clothing package compleet. Wearing a denim jacket over a gala dress can be done, but doesn't compliment the dress and looks pretty stupid. If you know what I mean.
To be accepted as the person we are, you must BE the person you are, accept yourself, and dress accordingly.
Who else can we be than our true selves?I want to dress more colourful than I do now, but have to be able to visualise myself wearing that, and see that as me. Then I can go ahead and wear it, because IT IS ME. That works.
Peter v
A man is the same man in a pair of pants or a skirt. It is only the way people look at him that makes the difference.
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BrotherTailor
Thanks for the encouragement Peter. I am limited financially. All the garments I make for my own use are bought as bolt end clearance fabric at discount stores....velvet is not something you will ever see in the bargain bolt rack. I will pay whatever anyone wants for a custom made garment...with a deposit, or I'll sew anything for anyone if they buy the fabric etc and have a pattern.
But for myself, no. The freedom to fantasise and imagine things without having to act them out or pursue them is a way of coping I guess. The mind is free to fly while the body and circumstances remain firmly anchored in reality.
But for myself, no. The freedom to fantasise and imagine things without having to act them out or pursue them is a way of coping I guess. The mind is free to fly while the body and circumstances remain firmly anchored in reality.
JRMILLER,
At SkirtCafe, the line you describe is drawn internally, rather than externally. We see the line as being whether the gender identity you present to the world is congruent with your inner gender identity, or whether you are putting on a (femme) act. We encourage people who consider themselves men to present to the world as men. It's that simple.
We don't consider what we do to be crossdressing, any more than a woman wearing jeans and a tie is crossdressing. Crossdressing involves not only wearing "the other gender's" clothes (whatever that means) but also playing a role of the other gender --- and this generally involves taking on a femme name and wearing fake body parts, things we don't do here. We believe it is simpler, more honest and better for a man's mental health to wear a skirt like a man. After all, they say it takes balls to wear a skirt!
On a deeper level, we seek to encourage our members to dress and present in ways that we feel are congruent with our inner self. If floral skirts REALLY ARE --- well, go ahead and wear them. Same with stockings, makeup, etc. But if they're not you, don't bother. If you don't know, try them out and see how you feel about it. In reality, most guys end up wearing skirts and outfits that would be less stereotypically feminine. But that is a personal choice based on personal identity, not a board-enforced policy.
The point is you're trying to figure out who YOU are and go with that, rather than trying to conform to some "idealized" stereotype of what you think women are (which is NOT you).
As for what will or will not damage the "cause" --- I believe that people really do respond to honesty. If you're wearing something crazy and it really is you, then eventually, most people will accept it. If they sense something fishy about you, like you're playing a game with them, they will never accept it. So it's important to be honest with yourself and honest with others, and to wear whatever you're going to wear with confidence.
At SkirtCafe, the line you describe is drawn internally, rather than externally. We see the line as being whether the gender identity you present to the world is congruent with your inner gender identity, or whether you are putting on a (femme) act. We encourage people who consider themselves men to present to the world as men. It's that simple.
We don't consider what we do to be crossdressing, any more than a woman wearing jeans and a tie is crossdressing. Crossdressing involves not only wearing "the other gender's" clothes (whatever that means) but also playing a role of the other gender --- and this generally involves taking on a femme name and wearing fake body parts, things we don't do here. We believe it is simpler, more honest and better for a man's mental health to wear a skirt like a man. After all, they say it takes balls to wear a skirt!
On a deeper level, we seek to encourage our members to dress and present in ways that we feel are congruent with our inner self. If floral skirts REALLY ARE --- well, go ahead and wear them. Same with stockings, makeup, etc. But if they're not you, don't bother. If you don't know, try them out and see how you feel about it. In reality, most guys end up wearing skirts and outfits that would be less stereotypically feminine. But that is a personal choice based on personal identity, not a board-enforced policy.
The point is you're trying to figure out who YOU are and go with that, rather than trying to conform to some "idealized" stereotype of what you think women are (which is NOT you).
As for what will or will not damage the "cause" --- I believe that people really do respond to honesty. If you're wearing something crazy and it really is you, then eventually, most people will accept it. If they sense something fishy about you, like you're playing a game with them, they will never accept it. So it's important to be honest with yourself and honest with others, and to wear whatever you're going to wear with confidence.
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Since1982
- Member Extraordinaire
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Bodice
Quoting Brother Tailor:My fantasy is to make a floor length green velvet evening gown...very full flowing skirt and a closely fitted bodice, sleeveless but with a fairly high neck (if that makes sense?) perhaps wear it with white gloves that cover most of the arm.
Doesn't the word "Bodice" infer that the user has mammary glands? If you're going to use mostly items that were designed for and used by women, are you really a man in a masculine looking MUG, (Male Unbifurcated Garment) or a male that just wants to look as feminine as possible? Personally, I don't care what you want to wear, but I don't think this site was ever created by or taken over by anyone that wanted it to become just another "crossdresser" site.
Doesn't the word "Bodice" infer that the user has mammary glands? If you're going to use mostly items that were designed for and used by women, are you really a man in a masculine looking MUG, (Male Unbifurcated Garment) or a male that just wants to look as feminine as possible? Personally, I don't care what you want to wear, but I don't think this site was ever created by or taken over by anyone that wanted it to become just another "crossdresser" site.
I had to remove this signature as it was being used on Twitter. This is my OPINION, you NEEDN'T AGREE.
Story of Life, Perspire, Expire, Funeral Pyre!I've been skirted part time since 1972 and full time since 2005. http://skirts4men.myfreeforum.org/
Story of Life, Perspire, Expire, Funeral Pyre!I've been skirted part time since 1972 and full time since 2005. http://skirts4men.myfreeforum.org/
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BrotherTailor
Re: Bodice
----------------------------------Since1982 wrote:Quoting Brother Tailor:My fantasy is to make a floor length green velvet evening gown...very full flowing skirt and a closely fitted bodice, sleeveless but with a fairly high neck (if that makes sense?) perhaps wear it with white gloves that cover most of the arm.
Doesn't the word "Bodice" infer that the user has mammary glands? If you're going to use mostly items that were designed for and used by women, are you really a man in a masculine looking MUG, (Male Unbifurcated Garment) or a male that just wants to look as feminine as possible? Personally, I don't care what you want to wear, but I don't think this site was ever created by or taken over by anyone that wanted it to become just another "crossdresser" site.
Lighten up. Bodice is a term used to define the panels that go into making up a non-outerwear (not coats/jackets usually) garment worn on the upper torso: front bodice, back bodice, etc. It is plain and easy for reference. Read any commercial pattern for men or women and this is the term in use. Perhaps in former eras it may have been used strictly in conjunction with women's clothing. I wouldn't know, as all my textbooks and patterns are modern (20th century)
If you have the courtesy to reread my post you will see that it is simply a daydream sir. My other posts elsewhere ought to provide some clue as to where I am coming from. Do you ever use your imagination? Stay on topic.
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SkirtDude
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crfriend
- Master Barista
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I'm not really sure where the visceral aversion to bright colours and prints for a lower garment comes from. If one looks at South Pacific garb, it can be downright riotous when it comes to colour -- frequently floral to boot -- and on sarongs for guys. It's us Western types that are scared of colour and print.[...] I would rather there be another word for ["femme" styles]. More colourfull clothing sounds more correct.
One possible explanation is that some of the really flashy prints simply would not work on a pair of trousers -- there's not enough "room" for a visible pattern to work. Bright colours seem to look "strange" on trousers, and even "masculine" things like plaids can look, well, stupid when applied to trousers (even while looking great on kilts). I think it's a case of scale; skirts offer a broader tableau for expression and, hence, one can do more with that space than one can with a pair of trousers. The two factors manifesting themselves at the same time may cause the typical western male's brain to wedge up, and result in the rejection of certain colours and patterns without looking past both the fact that it's a skirt in play and that the pattern or colour would simply not work on trousers.
Florals can work well on guys, and I'm proof of that (where's the digi-cam?); one of the skirts that I "appropriated" (that's such a strong word...) from my wife is a floral in almost a tapestry fabric that, while mostly dark, has lighter elements to it -- and it looks positively great worn with a purple shirt. Bright plain colours work well, too. I've garnered more than a few compliments on a red skirt paired with my red waistcoat and a light-coloured dress shirt.
The above having been said, I would steer away from pastels, but that's because I don't think they'd go well with my complexion, not because they're inherently "feminine".
This is sound advice, but one should listen to counsel from trusted sources when putting together something new or untried. Having a trusted and honest critic handy is a true blessing.Wear what feels right for you, YOU. Not what you think the others would wear.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
Just some observations on comments made in this thread.
Brother Tailor is correct, the technical term for the upper portion of a garment is bodice. It is a sewing term that goes back centuries.
Anatomically/medically, men have mammary glands and can get breast cancer. In some medical conditions, they can even lactate. Both are abnormal medical conditions of male mammary glands.
Now for a sewing question: Brother Tailor, you mentioned that getting sleeves right is difficult. Can you explain what is difficult about it? You also mentioned that you are making yourself a robe. Does it have sleeves?
When you say that getting sleeves right is difficult, are you referring to set in sleeves? If so, I will, to a limited degree agree. There is a knack to it that can only be achieved by practice.
Years ago, I made a complex velvet gown in royal blue. It was a modern adaptation of a medieval gown. The outer gown was royal blue velvet with short, puffy sleeves. There was a large bow across the bodice and the neckline and bow were trimmed in handsewn pearls. The skirt was split in front, so as to reveal an underskirt in royal purple jacquaard. The overskirt was lined in green metallic brocade. The gown had straight undersleeves of royal purple jacquard.
I find that the problems in working with velvet are that the fabric is thick and because of the nap, tends to slide. Attaching double sleeves to the bodice was indeed a chore that took a lot of patience.
Brother Tailor is correct, the technical term for the upper portion of a garment is bodice. It is a sewing term that goes back centuries.
Anatomically/medically, men have mammary glands and can get breast cancer. In some medical conditions, they can even lactate. Both are abnormal medical conditions of male mammary glands.
Now for a sewing question: Brother Tailor, you mentioned that getting sleeves right is difficult. Can you explain what is difficult about it? You also mentioned that you are making yourself a robe. Does it have sleeves?
When you say that getting sleeves right is difficult, are you referring to set in sleeves? If so, I will, to a limited degree agree. There is a knack to it that can only be achieved by practice.
Years ago, I made a complex velvet gown in royal blue. It was a modern adaptation of a medieval gown. The outer gown was royal blue velvet with short, puffy sleeves. There was a large bow across the bodice and the neckline and bow were trimmed in handsewn pearls. The skirt was split in front, so as to reveal an underskirt in royal purple jacquaard. The overskirt was lined in green metallic brocade. The gown had straight undersleeves of royal purple jacquard.
I find that the problems in working with velvet are that the fabric is thick and because of the nap, tends to slide. Attaching double sleeves to the bodice was indeed a chore that took a lot of patience.