Skirt Cafe is an on-line community dedicated to exploring, promoting and advocating skirts and kilts as a fashion choice for men, formerly known as men in skirts. We do this in the context of men's fashion freedom --- an expansion of choices beyond those commonly available for men to include kilts, skirts and other garments. We recognize a diversity of styles our members feel comfortable wearing, and do not exclude any potential choices. Continuing dialog on gender is encouraged in the context of fashion freedom for men. See here for more details.
I know I don't pop in here very often, but it's good to see Tom's Cafe continuing - kind of - where Tom left off.
Most of you probably know about Wikipedia - it's rapidly turning into *the* place to look things up on the internet. I've written a page about the Men in Skirts / MIS movement. If anyone cares to improve on it or make suggestions, feel free.
Oh, a Wiki article to edit! I love to work on Wiki articles (not that I do it much, though). Since I'm going to bed now I'll have to look through it later though. It seems like it is nice and long from my cursory romp through it, though :ninjajig:
http://the-shining-path.blogspot.com
Hatred is learned, not inherited. Let a little child from Iraq play with a child from the United States, and they will play together without a care in the world. Put the children back in their homes and their parents and the media will teach them hate and prejudice.
Great article, Steve. I'm no expert on this, just a boring old guy who finds kilts comfortable, so I wouldn't try to improve or amend it. My only minor reservation is the reference near the end to genderf*** which I don't think is necessary or approprate. Even though the term is used to differentiate us from such people, some will associate us with it, having first met this word (as I did) from the article, then looked up its meaning on the wiki link.
I've written a page about the Men in Skirts / MIS movement.
Well done Steve.
I think it's a great article - although I would also stick in there that some men wear skirts partly because they find them to be more sensual garments than trousers etc. The sensual/sexual aspect of skirt/kilt wearing needs to be acknowledged. I don't know how to do edits on Wiki - so I will just moan on until someone else sticks that in . . . .
One thing I REALLY don't like - and that is the term "genderfuck". I think it is a violent, intimidating expression that jars badly in the article. It needs taking out and replacing with a better description of what you were trying to say.
Just my opinion. Overall I think it's a great article . . . :cheer:
It's never too late to have a happy childhood . . .
ChristopherJ wrote:One thing I REALLY don't like - and that is the term "genderfuck". I think it is a violent, intimidating expression that jars badly in the article. It needs taking out and replacing with a better description of what you were trying to say.
Agreed 100%. I have made a couple of minor changes to the article (assuming they get adopted) but did not touch that particular bit as I'm not sure what you were driving at. When I stop to think about it, the very fact that I did not understand your point suggests it does not add anything and, given the aggressive tone of the phrase, I would lose it.
Generally however it's good article, thanks for taking the time to write it.
Have fun,
Ian.
Do not argue with idiots; they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Cogito ergo sum - Descartes
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce
Pardon my ignorance - but never heard of a Genderf**k and I am sure most other people will say the same. I can hazard a guess about what it means - I assume it is a combination of gender and F*c*. Why use such an expression in the first place when you are trying to give a definition of something also baffles me.
knickerless wrote:Pardon my ignorance - but never heard of a Genderf**k and I am sure most other people will say the same. I can hazard a guess about what it means - I assume it is a combination of gender and F*c*. Why use such an expression in the first place when you are trying to give a definition of something also baffles me.
I looked at the Wikipedia "G..f..k" definition and, to be honest, am more confused than ever by what it's supposed to/alleged to mean! If it's meant to infer "androgenous" (as in appearance, or whatever), then why not just say, "androgenous"? I can only assume it's intended to be more "confrontational", in the 'punk' tradition, as far as clothing is concerned.....?
I have to agree. It slanders the term "freestyling" by making it out to be an attack on gender preference, rather than an expression of fashion freedom.
It slanders the term "freestyling" by making it out to be an attack on gender preference, rather than an expression of fashion freedom.
I agree.
I choose to wear skirts made for women because I haven't yet seen anything made for men that I really like much. To infer from this that I ascribe to "a 21st century ideology in which men or women consider gender barriers to be irrelevant and harmful" is an insult to me - and other men like me. I do not consider (all) gender boundaries to be irrelevant and harmful. I simply dislike the rigid boundaries that constrain the type of clothing that men commonly wear in western societies.
I wear skirts because I like them - not to make a political point - and so I'm not happy with that part of the Wiki article which seems to imply that I - and people like me - are some sort of gender crusaders.
I'm not complaining about the Wiki article. Just moaning . . .
It's never too late to have a happy childhood . . .
And it's no good just changing "genderf*ck" to "androgyny"!
That's mad. Someone has just changed that one word - so it makes less sense now than it did before.
"Freestylers" - Men who freely mix masculine and feminine-styled garments, not wishing to be constrained by the conventions of gender. This is a form of androgyny, a 21st century ideology in which men or women consider gender barriers to be irrelevant and harmful, and will mix up conventionally male and female items or ideas, each borrowing from the other.
Because "androgyny" does not mean "21st century ideology etc. etc"
Wny can't it just say:
"Freestylers" - Men who freely mix masculine and feminine-styled garments, not wishing to be constrained by the conventions of gender.
I feel that explains my own situation perfectly.
It's never too late to have a happy childhood . . .
It may be in Wikipedia - but I have never heard of the word before - never seen it written and expect I never will. It sounds like a made up name used by only a few. As I said before why use a little known, little used and meaningless word that could cause offence - when giving a definition of something that you want people to understand and accept.
I and a few others have made a lot of small changes to the article, and it reads much more professionally now. Keep imprioving it, guys; and I will keep tabs on it, making tweaks here and there.
'Genderfuck' has been totally removed. I agree that the word sounds intimidating, as it includes a swear word. In fact, it isn't a rude or aggressive word - it simply means the mixing up of masculine and feminine ideas. But I agree it sounds bad, and most people wouldn't know that.
As for 'sensuality', I haven't added that for 2 reasons. 1) I can't see how to add it into the intro in a simple way, without cluttering up the free flow of the sentence.
2) Personally, I class a skirt's sensuality as a type of 'comfort'. With our zeal for skirts, we may sense it more than other people. But in the article we need to see it from a more common point of view, and present it as a simple, rational idea. If we highlight the sensuality aspect, ordinary man-in-the-street readers may think of sexual fetishes and it will play on their fears.
As for 'sensuality', I haven't added that for 2 reasons. 1) I can't see how to add it into the intro in a simple way, without cluttering up the free flow of the sentence.
2) Personally, I class a skirt's sensuality as a type of 'comfort'. With our zeal for skirts, we may sense it more than other people. But in the article we need to see it from a more common point of view, and present it as a simple, rational idea. If we highlight the sensuality aspect, ordinary man-in-the-street readers may think of sexual fetishes and it will play on their fears.
Fair enough. That makes sense. Although I don't describe sensuality as a type of 'comfort'. Nevertheless - whatever tickles your pickle . . .
Funny how - when the word "sensual" is used - descriptors such as "sexual fetish" pops up. They are not in any way associated.
Greetings to Mid Wales. I lived in Aberystwth for 6 years. But I've fully recovered now.
It's never too late to have a happy childhood . . .
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