Windows 11 and a new "experience" called Recall

[Belember]

Hi everyone. Please bear with me as I have some difficultly putting thought into words. I hope this is the correct section on the forum.

I am biased against Microsoft Windows due to ads, telemetry that talks back to the mother ship, and data collection similar to Google. In my opinion, the Microsoft ecosystem is really screwed up. Personally I run a Linux distribution on my PC.

I thought that everyone that runs Windows should be made aware about Recall. This is an ever flowing topic and changes are occurring with development so this information might not be current.

I've read that a new "feature" will eventually be pushed on Windows 11 machines. This is called, Recall and is A.I. driven. It can be used to search for information that was previously recorded on the PC. Microsoft said that the feature will be disabled by default or removed in a future update. I understand that Windows Updates can change settings back to their default value. I question whether Microsoft would "accidentally" enable Recall sometime in the future via an update.

Recall would collect data and record it on your PC for retrieval at a later time. For example it would screen capture every four seconds, use Optical Character Recognition (OCR) for everything - such as a document - you view or write. Data is to be stored locally to the PC and would fall off after a three month period.

Can you see how this would be a security nightmare? If a hacker were able to access your PC, they might be able to gather your banking records or other personal information - or when purchasing skirts. Microsoft previously said that they are working on locking it down.

If you ever need a technology news website, visit Ars Technica. They've ran a few detailed articles on Recall:

https://arstechnica.com/ai/2024/06/wind ... nt-earned/

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06 ... beta-test/

Microsoft said that they are pulling the feature the next update; however, they did not say that it would not be implemented in the future:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06 ... ntroversy/

Interesting and scary stuff, huh? Thanks for reading.

Oh, written while wearing a skirt.

[crfriend]

I've read that a new "feature" will eventually be pushed on Windows 11 machines. This is called, Recall and is A.I. driven. It can be used to search for information that was previously recorded on the PC. Microsoft said that the feature will be disabled by default or removed in a future update. I understand that Windows Updates can change settings back to their default value. I question whether Microsoft would "accidentally" enable Recall sometime in the future via an update.

They absolutely will re-enable it -- and make it impossible to disable -- in a future push. Worse, those data will be stored in Microsoft's "cloud" which means that there will be zero security (that anyone other than M$ can trust) protecting it. It will be for sale at some point.

This is common practise already. Farcebook records everything that anyone does on it and sells it to the highest bidder. So do Apple. Google tracks every search you perform. M$ is just the latest one to join the pig-pile. "Privacy" in the on-line world is effectively dead. Pretty much anything one does online is visible to somebody and that somebody is likely selling said information. For instance, since I do not control the Skirt Cafe software in a fully-hardened environment, I cannot state with any certainty that there are no recording/reporting mechanisms present "above" Skirt Cafe that I cannot see. I am not aware of any such things from a review of the phpBB code, however.

Quite literally, if one wants to have a truly secure computer, it needs to be "air-gapped" from any and all external influences, actors, connections, and the like. Only in that way does the machine effectively seem "secure". The moment one connects to anything, the risk is there.

[Belember]

Quite literally, if one wants to have a truly secure computer, it needs to be "air-gapped" from any and all external influences, actors, connections, and the like. Only in that way does the machine effectively seem "secure". The moment one connects to anything, the risk is there.

CR:

Thank you for your reply!

I understand what you are saying about a "secure" system and that there are logs somewhere for everything you do online. It would be helpful if every Internet Service Provider (ISP) would provide educational material on hardening home networks.

Most home networks are connected to the Internet. In the residential sector, many people use a cable modem or router as their first line of defense along with Network Address Translation (NAT.) How many cable modems or routers firmware is kept up-to-date? I believe that it's the Internet Service Provider's responsibility to update devices firmware as necessary.

I have a few questions:

What do you think of using a dedicated firewall on the home network, or are the ISP provided cable modem or router enough protection?
What firewall would you recommend?
Would a firewall be cost prohibited?
Would there be enough people that would even care to run a dedicated firewall?
Would the firewall be able to block ads, or use another dedicate device to block ads?
What are your thoughts about using anti-virus software and what would you recommend?

[crfriend]

Most home networks are connected to the Internet. In the residential sector, many people use a cable modem or router as their first line of defense along with Network Address Translation (NAT.) How many cable modems or routers firmware is kept up-to-date? I believe that it's the Internet Service Provider's responsibility to update devices firmware as necessary.

There's a knock-on aspect to the fact that the subscriber's LAN (Local Area Network) is what's actually affected -- it's all hosts (devices, computers, 'phones, IOT (Internet of Things), &c) are affected. So, the problem may be larger than one thinks. Worse, is that it's the subscriber's responsibility to maintain "updates" to everything of his network, not the provider's. The provider will likely be responsible for the MODEM (unless it was bought outright by the subscriber) but everything else is the subscriber's responsibility.

I have a few questions:

What do you think of using a dedicated firewall on the home network, or are the ISP provided cable modem or router enough protection?

I think a firewall between the MODEM and the router is a good idea, but firewall configuration and setup is non-trivial and likely beyond the abilities of non-IT professionals.

What firewall would you recommend?

I used a custom Linux-based one for years with tightly customised rule-sets that defined what was allowed to happen (both inbound and INbound). Creating it, took a detailed analysis of my threat-profile and a few weeks to craft the rule-sets.

Would a firewall be cost prohibited?
Would there be enough people that would even care to run a dedicated firewall?
Would the firewall be able to block ads, or use another dedicate device to block ads?

On all of these, the question lies with the ability of the person creating and maintaining the rules.

Blocking ads is another can of worms, and the vermin that support such sites switch IP addresses and blocks wildly to avoid those who would block their crap. This is most easily done by running a custom DNS server, but that's also a lot of work and requires detailed knowledge that most lay folks don't have. Of note is that advertising sited are very frequently "ethically-challenged" and also host viruses and other malware. I cannot tell you the number of times I had to devirus my late ex-'s laptop(s) from viruses acquired from CNN's advertising sites.

What are your thoughts about using anti-virus software and what would you recommend?

If you're running on a "target of interest" (M$ Windwoes, Apple, consumer-grade stuff), I recommend it, but cannot recommend a vendor. I don't run "targets of interest, so I'm not particularly worried.

As far as personal configurations go, my private network is behind a double-NAT layer with each layer being controlled by different vendor hardware and software, thus doubling the inherent NAT protection. Of IP ports that I do allow outside connections to, I control those very, very carefully with host-based firewall rules.

[JohnH]

When Microsoft ends support for Windows 10 which I believe will be in 2025 I will migrate to Linux, most likely Ubuntu. I have heard enough bad things about Windows 11 that I do not want it on my PC.

John

[Belember]

When Microsoft ends support for Windows 10 which I believe will be in 2025 I will migrate to Linux, most likely Ubuntu. I have heard enough bad things about Windows 11 that I do not want it on my PC.

If I understand correctly, October, 14, 2025 will be the last day of support for Windows 10.

Ubuntu is a good distribution; however, have you ever heard of Linux Mint? Linux Mint uses the Ubuntu Long Term Support (LTS) base and Mint updates to that base every two years. Linux Mint will continue to receive security updates upstream from Ubuntu. However, the default desktop for Linux Mint is called Cinnamon. Cinnamon is easy to use and works very well. Its look is similar to Windows 10 and is updated about every six months. Oh, Ubuntu will release interim versions of its operating system every six months. An LTS is created every two years.

Linux Mint maintains a very active forum and is well documented.

If you would like to see a list of popular distributions, there is a web site called DistroWatch. The site is:

https://distrowatch.com/

[moonshadow]

I just assume, "if it's got a screen, it's watching you twice as much as you're watching it".

There is no such thing as privacy, hasn't been for a long time. Seems like someone is always trying to play "GOTCHA!".

f--- em, they want my life, they can have it. Maybe they'll have better luck with it than I did.

My mind, my body, my back... all belong to the system now, property of the machine. My soul is still mine, they can't have that. That's between me and God. I can not wait for the universe to render this miserable species obsolete.

[denimini]

Perhaps it avoids them storing your personal data on their servers; storing it on yours and accessing when they want to. Might save them money and responsibility with security of personal data.
I was trying to avoid Windows 11 on the newspaper PC, I kept deferring the update until I had time to do a permanent fix which would take time altering the registry. Anyway we had a Christmas break and it snuck in then, Most annoying.
My personal PC is still using Windows 7 which I have been happy with. I would move to Linux but there is a problem running AutoCad.

[JohnH]

Anthony, you could set your PC as a dual boot machine so you could select between Linux and Windows when you boot.
You can also set up a Windows virtual operating system on your Linux computer.

John

[FranTastic444]

When Microsoft ends support for Windows 10 which I believe will be in 2025 I will migrate to Linux, most likely Ubuntu. I have heard enough bad things about Windows 11 that I do not want it on my PC.

John

John - it is posts like this that have me thinking likewise. That said, its not just your OS that is out to learn as much about you as possible. Reading the terms of service (ToS) of various providers / services is a bit of an eye-opener.

• If I sign up to voice search on my isp / cable provider or on my Smart tv (LG) or on an app like YouTube, they get not only access to what I'm searching for, but also what I watched and for how long.
• My isp ToS allows them to gather all sorts of metrics from my browsing habits and to share / sell them as they see fit. Not sure if running through a VPN will hide any of this?
• I've read that many GPS systems in cars (and, allegedly, Apple CarPlay / Google Maps on your phone) gather metrics about your driving locations and driving styles (including actual speed versus posted speed limits) for onward distribution. Could this be impacting the price of your next car insurance renewal?
• Text I write in Outlook or Word (using the free online versions) ends up driving the ads that I see. Same with searches in Google.
• Difficult / impossible to sign up to some services now like Netflix, YouTube, Amazon without including your mobile phone or another device (such as a tablet) in the sign-up process. Of course, the ToS state that you also have to agree to them carrying out cross device tracking of your activity.

[rode_kater]

This features scares the bejesus out of any business using PCs for confidential work, so there will absolutely be a way to turn it off. Or MS will kill their most lucrative market.

[crfriend]

This features scares the bejesus out of any business using PCs for confidential work, so there will absolutely be a way to turn it off. Or MS will kill their most lucrative market.

Or, "ought to scare the bejusus out of said features", but there are no laws in the US prohibiting such behaviour. Anything a company can get its hands on -- by hook or by crook -- is fair game. Sold! To the highest bidder!

Count yourself lucky if you live in a developed country with real data-security laws.

[Seb]

Currently I'm running W10 on my machine. I know there has been a lot of good happening on the gaming side for Linux, but after my daughter was born, I didn't want to spend the little time I have left over for gaming on getting's things to work and this is where windows does shine, most games just work out of the box.

I used to dualboot on my old PC; ubuntu(with AwesomeWM as desktop enviroment), I also still use PeppermintOS on my laptop(granted, I hardly use the laptop anymore, its a Asus EeePC 700 from 2007). I have tried out a lot of different distros over the last 20 years and I think Ubuntu is the easiest to use and there's plenty of documentation.

I have long since planned to go back to dualbooting, keeping W10 around for games but using Linux for everything else, but not had the time or rather will to set it up on my new machine yet.

[6ft3Aussie]

I had a new experience the other day with a recent version of Windoze...
I needed to use Hyperterminal to talk to a GPS receiver via an RS232 serial port.
Hang on..... Where's Hyperterminal????? It's no longer part of Windoze so I had to find a suitable terminal program for the task, and for some reason PuTTY had issues sending the required commands.

I "Recall" Hyperterminal was certainly there in Windoze 7...

[Seb]

CMD is still there in w10 pro at least, could ofc be locked out on the cheapest editions for all I know but it feels like it should be standard in all os.
I have used it extensively when unlocking and trying new roms/os/software on a variety of devices from phones and mp3 players to the car multimedia device and routers.

Very long time since I used a serial connection for anything though, used to play multiplayer games over rs232 in the 90ties before we got rj45 networking stuff.

Come to think of it we used the lpt port for both file transfer and gaming too for awhile but it quickly got to slow to play games on.