Why has long hair been mainstreamed for men while skirts haven't?

[LiuBang]

After all, long hair is still regarded as predominantly feminine, and boys with long hair are easily mistaken for tomboyish girls.

And long hair actually shapes the silhouette of your face (part of your upper body) while skirts* only shape the silhouette of your lower body. If I'm trying to determine someone's gender at a glance, I look at his/her face/chest. I'm not looking at their butt or legs to determine their gender. The upper body is a lot more sexually dimorphic than the lower. Therefore all else equal, long hair looks much more feminine than a plain, muted-color skirt worn with a unisex T-shirt and unisex shoes.

*Dresses are also skirts, but for the purpose of this discussion, let's stick to skirts whose coverage is restricted to the lower body.

[moonshadow]

Good question...

I'd just chalk it up to the arbitrary manner in which our customs evolve.

I can remember even in my lifetime where having long hair would have made life difficult. That's one of the reasons I waited until so recently to grow mine out... pretty much every employer I worked for banned long hair for men.

Even as recent as six years ago I overheard a manager at a Panera Bread discussing a situation with another manager about how they were going to have to force one of their male employees to get a haircut or lose his job.

I checked and sure enough, men's hair was not to touch the shoulder at this particular location.

Note this was about a year before the SCOTUS decision regarding this type of thing.

[crfriend]

Why is anybody even worrying about this at this point? Why? Why hasn't anybody noticed the complete departure of femininity from the landscape? Most women are now more butch than the men are -- and that's got to be causing some level of angst somewhere.

[moonshadow]

Why hasn't anybody noticed the complete departure of femininity from the landscape?

Oh femininity hasn't disappeared, it's just changed sexes. I never really realized how prevalent femininity among men had gotten until I really lived full time outside of the Appalachian/southern culture.

Of course there was another name for these men, "meteosexual"... but honestly, it's femininity.

Not sure what the word is for a "meteosexual" woman....

But I can see why that black YouTube grandma we discussed in the other thread has a gripe.. it seems Carl, that women are just as frustrated as you are. Women are more masculine and men are more feminine these days.

Kinda raised some interesting philosophical questions, especially with regards to gender philosophy these days... i.e., are men now.... to be considered women and vice versa? *ponders*

[crfriend]

Not sure what the word is for a "meteosexual" woman....

A prostitute. "Has sex with cities." Nuff' said.

[moonshadow]

Not sure what the word is for a "meteosexual" woman....

A prostitute. "Has sex with cities." Nuff' said.

Well, it's nothing new, I know back in the day what we would have called a metrosexual man was also known as a "dandy".

So we go from dandy to metrosexual to "just another guy from Seattle..." (little joke there....)

[jamie001]

Oh femininity hasn't disappeared, it's just changed sexes. I never really realized how prevalent femininity among men had gotten until I really lived full time outside of the Appalachian/southern culture.

Of course there was another name for these men, "meteosexual"... but honestly, it's femininity.

But I can see why that black YouTube grandma we discussed in the other thread has a gripe.. it seems Carl, that women are just as frustrated as you are. Women are more masculine and men are more feminine these days.

Kinda raised some interesting philosophical questions, especially with regards to gender philosophy these days... i.e., are men now.... to be considered women and vice versa? *ponders*

The problem with the youtube grandma is that she doesn’t acknowledge that women have become masculine. If fact, it seems that she condones it, and states that men need to man-up, stop wearing men’s undies that look like panties, and get back to wearing black and white underwear and clothing! Society really needs to get over the masculinity and femininity shlt and just let people be them selves instead to trying to force people into prefabricated stereotypes. That is the root cause of the problem that needs to be eliminated. Masculinity and femininity are a load of shlt! People just need to be who they are.

[crfriend]

Masculinity and femininity are a load of shlt! People just need to be who they are.

I'll respectfully disagree with you on the count of excrement, and state that they are important components of our biological heritage. Yes, they are that deeply ingrained -- and the recent shifts in trait distribution are starting to show the damage that's being done.

Men haven't changed all that much in 50 years, but women have massively "butched up" to the point where they're virtually indistinguishable from men. Short hair, pants/"leggings" all the time, and overall macho behaviours only scratch the surface. It goes vastly deeper into the psyche.

One of the problems I have now is that I am insufficiently homosexual enough to find "modern 'women'" attractive -- and that got driven home when I had to ditch a prospective relationship recently (although that turned out to be a blessing in disguise) when "she" started demanding "makeovers" on me to bring "her" into line with what "she'd" "find attractive". I put my head back and hauled hard on the ejection lanyard right quick at that point!

If this is happening with the "older set" (yes, I believe I now class there) it's likely happening with the younger set as well. How does that bode for the "survival of the species"? (Although I do not put a high regard on the necessity of homo sapiens "ruling the planet".) Will humankind survive radical "feminism"? I think the jury is out on that one already.

"Boys will be girls and girls will be boys // It's a mixed up world". Isn't fun how art and life track one another. Save when it's no longer funny.

[STEVIE]

Therefore all else equal, long hair looks much more feminine than a plain, muted-color skirt worn with a unisex T-shirt and unisex shoes.

With a beard LiuBang?
I'd dispute the overall feminine aspect of long hair, men and women through the ages have sported flowing locks without any real hindrance except in western culture from the late eighteenth century on.
The hair thing is just fashion, the skirt thing takes in a lot lot more and I think we need to keep that thought.
That said, if every guy currently with long hair donned a skirt, BINGO!
Steve.

[DrFishnets]

I remember growing my hair long in my teens. I got some ridicule for it and my dad and brother used to call me a sissy. I remember at work in my late teens I had my long hair tied at the back and one of my work colleagues wife asked if I was practising to be a girl. Still this didn’t stop me from going the rest of my teens and early 20 with long hair and I remember girls in my art class at college telling me I suited long hair which was flattering. This is when I was tempted to wear a skirt but bottled it.

The problem is men have always had long hair but only a minority of men wear skirts. I still have a full head of hair which my dad and brother are jealous of but I’ve been told long hair looks awful once it’s turned grey but I’d like to grow my hair long again to look good in a kilt and skirt once I lose weight that is.

[Mouse]

When I was growing up, I may not have had the balls to request a skirt, but I did dig my heels in over the length of my hair. I have never had a short hair cut since I was around seven.

The problem I have in later life is what hair I have, is slowly falling out of my head, my chin however seems to have no problem growing a beard, go figure.

I do admire the members in the cafe with long flowing locks. I wish I could grow mine as long.

When I was growing up, the band Status Quo was riding high, and all band members had great long hair, showing that there was no limit to what hair men could wear. Well that's what it said to me

[Grok]

People have had more time to get used to long hair, since the 1960s.

[Myopic Bookworm]

I always liked long hair, but for years never dared to grow mine. I got it almost to shoulder length a couple of times in my 20s, then bottled out, as it was so thick that on a windy day it headed towards ginger Afro, and threatened to turn me into a heavy metal drummer. But I was recently challenged by the example of a friend's son, who at the age of about 11 braved a lot of stupid comments and grew his hair for the charity that makes wigs for kids undergoing radiotherapy. Finally, during the covid lockdown, when a visit to the barber was impractical, I decided to go for it. Now that much of it is grey, it is finer, and so not so bushy. I have qualms from time to time, and the combination of long hair and skirt sometimes causes me concern about being misgendered, but it was such a pain getting it through the stage when the front flips you in the eye that I am reluctant to cut it and then have to grow it again.

I still occasionally daydream about getting a Mohican (a.k.a. Mohawk).

[Uncle Al]

A point of contention

Long hair, in many situations, can/is dangerous to the person.
If their hair is not properly managed, a few strands may get
entangled in production machinery.
(example: when I had a drain get stopped up, the guy who came to
ream-out the drain, had long hair. As he was working, bending over
the machine, his long hair got caught in the auger. That pulled his
head VERY CLOSE to the auger before he could shut it off. He had
to cut his hair to extricate himself from the machine.)

The hair I had on the top of my head became so thin, and with
the MPB(Male Patterned Baldness) that I inherited from my
grand parents, I ended up shaving off the 'few' remaining stands.
These hairs, relocated to my chin, thus I have a long 'Santa' beard.

Anymore, I don't have to shave the 'top part' of my head as the
hair has become e x t r e m e l y thin. Maybe once a month now.

So, long hair may have its place, along with short hair having
its safety margins - depending on what the type of job the
person has.

YMMV

Uncle Al

[Mouse]

A point of contention

Long hair, in many situations, can/is dangerous to the person.
If their hair is not properly managed, a few strands may get
entangled in production machinery.

I remember similar warnings from metal work teachers when discussing use of a lathe. You missed out wearing a tie or a long beard....