What's life like for you in your location?

[moonshadow]

Been getting the itch to set out and see America before I get too rooted here. I'm talking permanent... like "so long east coast"!

I'm wondering what's it like both practically and financially in some of the locales of various members here? I'm interested in the southwest and west coast states.

For example, around here a $20 per hour job is top notch! Then again, rents run around $450-$650 for an average place to stay in a decent neighborhood. Electric and water are reasonable, running around $150 on average per month for electric and maybe $60-$70 per month for water/sewer (3,000 gallons). Marion charges only $40!

There is no local (city/county) income tax, and the state tax is only 5.75% for those in my tax bracket. Tennessee actually has no income taxes... period. (well except for capital gains from what I'm told)

I've always been told that things are outrageous on the west coast. Everything is super expensive from water/sewer to electric, to fuel, to rent. I have about verified the rents by selecting random craiglist sites out that way and I concur, what goes for $500 per month here goes for $1500 per month there.

So what's the deal? Do you all out that way get paid like $30 per hour for entry level jobs or something? I mean what gives here? How do you afford the astronomical cost of living?

...

So give me a hand here... you all know my lifestyle, what I like. You know I hate debt, you know I want a decent place to live. Not a mansion on the hill, but not in a ghetto rut either.

Also, consider I'm a food equipment maintenance man, not a PHD, or rocket scientist. Around here the average wage for my skill set runs around $17-$22 per hour.

If that's the best I can get over there and have the thrill of having a $1500 per month rent, $600 per month electric bill, $400 per month water bill (for 500 gallons), pay $5.00 per gallon for gas, and pay 80% in income taxes to the state, then I'd probably be best to stay with the rednecks, bigots and jerks over here.

But that's why I wrote this, to seek truth. Is there any truth to these rumors? Is it really that bad?

Teach me oh wise men of skirt cafe!

Oh, and Carl, I already know it's astronomical up your way, I know you all get the joy of paying $30,000 per year in real estate taxes for 700 square feet houses.

How do I know? Because I talk to "northern transplants" all of the time! They're taking over down here!

[crfriend]

Don't worry, Moon, I'd not recommend Massachusetts to a transplant. It's expensive, jobs are scarce, and government has a distinct 17th Century flavour to it. In short, it's got all the expense, but little of the charm. I'd have to dig back to see what I was paying in tax for Sapphire's place since I was taking care of all the bills. I rent now, so that's not a direct problem. Sales tax here is 6+% and state income tax 5.5% and slated to rise. The real problem is Federal tax, but that's an issue anywhere in this country (I wish I could get out, but I'm a bit on the old side).

I looked at emigrating to Oz for a while in the '80s, but fell in love, got a life, and then got anchored down by all sorts of stuff, some of which is eventually going to become my legacy. I still have a life and my trappings, but that first one is long gone. I also dabbled with the notion of Canada for a while, but with the populated parts of Canada being about 5 minutes' airstrike-time from the south figured it wouldn't buy me much save for a 20th Century lifestyle instead of livin' the Puritan Ethic.

[Kirbstone]

I also have a BTA, a Bin to America. A few, actually. The great thing about it is that it is so big, with diverse climates that one can be 'provincial' and never wander outside it anywhere else. To see the place one needs one's own personal transport and be patient with applied speed limits.

Work-wise I headed like a lot of newly qualifieds, to England where through Rowing I met MOH who was all of 21 at the time. All four of our children were brought into the World in the same progress room at Reading (on Thames) Hospital. All their upbringing happened in Hampshire and away at boarding school.
I then had a mid-life urge for change and went to West Germany for as it turned out, 8 years. Germany re-unified while I was there and that was THE most interesting thing to happen that I remember. MOH never got to grips with German and was fascinated but uncomfortable with life there.
I always was going to head back to the 'Ould Sod', Ireland and here we have been for the last 22 years now. MOH being an English Home Counties lass has cultivated a wide circle of Brit.Ex-Pat friends resident here, so together with her very large 'English garden' she is happy here.

Approaching possible retirement I don't relish that actually happening as I love to victimise people and apply my old saying; 'Once more with feeling' to Oral surgical procedures

Tom

[denimini]

Years ago I was a bit like Moon, renting humble (and cold) little places, on a limited income (my own doing being self employed). I was deciding whether to buy a bus or a boat to live in to avoid the big mortgage when I went to visit someone in the town I live now, saw the house on the river from the bridge and commented what a nice situation it was. Two weeks later I got a message that the house I liked was for sale and for less than a boat or bus would cost. That was 31 years ago.
I am lucky that I have profession where I can work from home (Architecture), travelling occasionally to meet clients but that is like a holiday.
I love the outback; no traffic, park anywhere, anyhow - even stop in the middle of the main street for a conversation to someone in a car coming the other way, the nearest traffic light 200kms away and the nearest parking meter 500 kms. Guarranteed no snow. People ask me why I don't go away for holidays and I say that I am already there. When I first got here I misssed book shops and good coffee but now I buy books on the internet from all over the world and bought a good espresso machine, buying fresh roasted coffee online.
But it is not for everyone, like skirt styles, and there are few employment prospects unless internet or cow based, and one would have to travell a long way for specialist medical care or to do more than the most basic shopping .... and the weather can be very hot and dry.
Australian cities now have some of the highest house prices in the world, the average suburban house is now $1.1M - not for me to be pay that to be so close to a neighbour of dubious character. In my town one can still buy a block of land for $200, someone 20 years ago bought 52 town blocks for $10 each but couldn't keep up with the rates on them all, obviously not a place for realestate investment, pay a years rates and you have overcapitalised.
I am still on a limited income but live frugally and am happy, although I don't laugh as much since my partner Heather passed away.

Often one finds their real home by chance and not by planning, so maybe Moon could buy a bus and travel around fixing peoples equipment until they find the right place.

[partlyscot]

Not the area you're interested in, but a quick look around here, (Calgary,Alberta Canada) shows me trailer homes to be about $1,100/month for what looks like nice large, places, dropping to $800 for places outside of the city. Plot size in the city is going to be small though. Taxes start at 17% (federal) sales tax is 5%. Salary for your job, don't know, but the first 3 big companies checked are all hiring, and I'd guess starting wage for apprentice would be around $15-20/hour. We pay about $1200 all in for a basement suite, not large, but with a garage, rents have dropped a lot the last year, as the recession has started to bite, but there is still lots of work, and developers are still buying up older homes on small to medium lots at $400,000 and squeezing 2 mini McMansions on the plot and selling for $900,000 each. Still a few condos and office blocks underway downtown, but not so many forests of tower cranes, and the condos themselves don't seem to be selling quite so fast. We both work for a retail organization that looks after the employees well, as an example, GF is on week 5 of a 6 week paid leave to recover from semi major surgery, which was paid for by taxes of course. Weather is extremely variable, currently in a Chinook, (Warm Foehn winds from mountains, translates as Snoweater) but the last big dump of snow is still causing issues as the city doesn't, for the most part, plow the side streets. It's quite spring like at the moment, but it'll be below freezing by the weekend, and I expect it to be utterly terrifying to someone used to Southern weather well before the end of February.

I'm not really awake yet so this is rambling, let me know if further information is wanted.

[moonshadow]

Thanks for the replies, partlyscot, you're answers were exactly what I was looking for, straight up, honest assessments about your locations.

This is a very tough decision, my landlady champions Virginia heavily. And for what it's worth, New England transplants LOVE Virginia. We're just "northern" enough in policy and law, yet also "southern" enough for milder winters, and of course, lower cost of living. As I've stated, Tennessee has even lower taxes, however state policy gets a little "red".

I think my landlady also wants me to stay as I pay my rent on time, and I keep her property in good repair without bugging her constantly.

In all honestly, sometimes my logic cries out just to stay put and see America by vacations alone. I have a good job, and a job that in all fairness isn't "man in skirt" friendly, but at least leaves me alone for the most part at my current position. There is just little chance of advancement. My income to cost of living ratio is VERY favorable and above average for a high school graduate with no college education like myself.

The most basic essentials for "modern" life, housing, heat, water and sewer. As it is, all of this combined would run around $550 per month total in the summer and maybe closer to $950 in the coldest months. This price does not include things like cable, internet, phones, etc, rather just the basic utilities and rent. Even in the winter, my take home pay is over twice that.

Taxes are reasonable I suppose. If you make $10 per hour, you can expect to bring home about $300 per week after taxes and health insurance. If you make $20, it's about $600 per week respectively, take home.

Our hospitals are fair. We don't have facilities that draw in patients the world over, but they serve our community well enough and can handle many common ailments, if not locally, then at least regionally (Bristol/Kingsport/Johnson City area)

The most progressive places in the U.S. are also quite intimidating for an old hillbilly boy like myself. I know I talk a cool talk on these boards, but deep down, lets me honest, these hills are all I know. To me, Roanoke is a BIG city coming in at just under 100,000 residents. Hell, that's a small town compared to many areas I've looked at.

I worry about being a fish out of water, being hustled, loosing it all.

There may be another opportunity to transfer to Chattanooga. A rather recent prospect I've talked to my supervisor about, currently I'm placing it at a 20% probability of happening, but still generally favorable. They need help bad down there, and I'm looking to "start over" somewhere away from corporate, but both sides have deal breakers and it's a tough negotiation.

Chattanooga is also deeper south, and not exactly the direction I was aiming. That being said, it's a larger city. But are they progressive? In my internet searches I've found it's a crap shoot. If I go that route my job is secure, as I'd be working for the same company and they already know about how I am, so that's not an issue. Issues I may run into are housing and general harassment. As it is, I have a very supportive and understanding landlady who takes zero issue with what I do, but it did take a few failures to find her.

Time would be of the essence if I take this transfer and I don't have forever to fiddle fart around with bigoted landlords. I don't want to get signed into a place and then he catch me with a dress on and find myself evicted.

I just don't know how the Chattanooga community feels about gender benders like myself. Visiting is one thing, but settling down? That tends to draw out the drama....

I may need to make a few weekend trips down that way in some flamboyant outfits just to take the pulse of the situation.

Rent's seem to be slightly higher in the Chatt area over what I'm accustomed to. I'd say utilities are about the same, and of course, in Tennessee there is no income tax so that helps.

I've already made one of my conditions of transfer being a healthy and satisfactory raise to account for the higher cost of living.

But all this aside, lest we forget, my situation is not bad here. I have tolerant neighbors, a good landlady, a job that is fair enough under the circumstances, and have pretty well canvased the entire region in some pretty wild skirts and dresses and always came home with all my body parts and no bruises.

Gheesh... if I were 20 years old, I'd bounce in a heart beat... but I find as I get older, I try to make my decisions a little more "calculated".... I'll think something to death!

Sure would like to hear from smoothlegs on this one... as Chatt is his hometown, and I'm giving this some serious consideration!

[Disaffected.citizen]

An interesting thread, particularly as the question pertains to US states rather than international locations. As we have responses from Eire, Australia and Canada, I may as well "chip in" for the UK (my little corner, at least).

I'm in the south-east UK to give an idea; about 40 miles outside London.

Rents are c£700pm for a small-average two bed flat/apartment, local council tax c£100pm, water, gas and electricity total c£70pm (but I think I'm very frugal). Vehicle fuel is about £1.20/litre, public transport is not great as it's semi rural here. Food prices are average with a variety of shops catering for varying budgets.

Income varies according to skill set. Minimum wage is £7.20/h for over 25s but, as it's £5.55/h for 18-20s, I suspect elements of age discrimination at low end jobs, plus "zero hours" contracts.

Socially, I'd say most are conservative, "small town"; eccentricities stand out. Although I sense a very right wing political persuasion, the reality is that most just get on with life on a live and let live basis. We have our "rednecks", too, but I suspect it's the "nouveau rich" who are more judgmental. There is worry about migrants, although the reality is there are relatively few and most seem to try to integrate.

When I was "open" I encountered very few instances of negativity and only one problem until I met my abuser; but she merely used my eccentricities as an additional avenue/tool in the abuse - it would have been there regardless.

Our climate is particularly mild in general. Winter temperatures sometimes dip below freezing (0°C/32°F) but not too often and rarely below -5°C/23°F which is remarkable (we benefit from the North Atlantic "Gulfstream" bringing our mild climate) when you consider the winter climate of (say) Quebec City which is 5° further south. We've had about an inch of snow this winter; it was gone the same day! Summer can get into the 80s°F/27+°C. Although we complain about the rain, the cloud, etc, I doubt it's as bad as we make out.

So, that's a brief snapshot; it will vary from town to town. I'm sure that if you were to migrate eastwards you'd be welcomed

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

Moon,

You asked about the West Coast so here's the skinny. Portland is said to have the most temperate climate in the country. Seattle is probably very close behind.

My two bedroom, two bath apartment costs $1,100 per month, including a garage, assigned parking space, water & sewer, washer & dryer and basic cable. I'm within the city limits, but only barely. Most Portlanders would tell you I've got a very nice apartment for the monthly rent. My electric bill (The unit is all electric, because we have so much hydroelectric power and now wind and solar power in the Pacific NorthWest, all electric apartments and even homes, are quite common.) Everyone complains about how much the water rates are going up, but only because it's been so cheap and the Water Dept. had to upgrade so much of the sewer system. On the other hand, we drink some of the purest water in the US and probably the world (snow melt from a protected forest).

The state income tax tops out at 9% (it's progressive) but there's no sales tax. Property taxes are about what they are in total most everywhere else in the US. Wages are just about average (they used to be about 10% lower than the US average). Right now, Oregon has a lower unemployment rate than the US as a whole and Portland is lower yet.

As to why real estate is so expensive it's called supply and demand. For decades Portland was this sleepy little place that in many ways time forgot and in others was helping to build the future. For instance, Intel has several microchip factories in the area they used to be production plants like the rest of their shops, now they're the prototyping plants where they produce prototype chips and refine the manufacturing processes.

Then all of a sudden Rose City became the "it" town because we value our environment, have an extensive transit system not to mention a lively arts and performing arts scene. It doesn't hurt that Nike is headquartered in a Portland "suburb." Satellite city is probably more accurate. Anyway, we have a lot more people flooding in than housing going up, At some point it will balance out.

In the '20's the Ku Klux Klan probably had a tighter grip on state politics here than in some of the Southern states. We've grown up since and become a live and let live kind of population, as you've probably gathered.

Gasoline: figure $0.10 over the national average.

Anything else you'd like to know?

[moonshadow]

Thanks for all the information.
$1100 per month is too high for me, assuming I stay within the same income bracket of $40k per year. I like a income/expense ratio where I can at least put $200-$400 per month if not more into savings. At 40k a $1100 rental payment would be over half of my monthly earnings.

I understand my next question is a "nunya" question... so don't feel compelled to answer, but the question nags at my head never the less... if you're unemployed, how on Earth do you pay such a large payment each month? If I didn't work, my income basically falls to zero. Once we burn through savings, we'd literally live on the streets.

It seems like state level taxes are about the same everywhere you go. You mentioned a 9% income tax, VA has a 5.75% income tax and a 5.3% sales on general merchandise. Which puts us a little higher overall, but grocery items are 2.5% and medications, including OTC are 0%.

Tennessee is the exact opposite of you all, they have no income tax but run around a 9% sales tax +/- depending on the county.

There are places near here that are more expensive. Often times it can depend on the county. Asheville NC is known for expensive rents. One of my coworkers has a grown daughter who took a job in Asheville and she's paying $900 per month for a 1 bedroom. I've got another coworker who lives in Knoxville TN who complains he is paying $800 per month.

All of them envy my $400 payment, however it's in Marion which is lacking high paying employment opportunities, but in the grand scheme of things really isn't far from better paying prospects. Marion is only 30 miles north of Abingdon, and about 45 miles north of Bristol. 100 miles south of Roanoke. It works for me as Marion is almost the dead smack center of my route at work so it logistically made sense to move here. Damascus was sort of out of the way.

Even so, the average house in Marion is going for $550-$650 per month. The only reason my place is so cheap is it's a 40 year old single wide in a somewhat run down looking area of town. I remember paying $600 per month in Damascus when I first moved there. It's no wonder with that rent payment being about average for this area, yet the average full time wage is probably around $10-$12 per hour, that nobody can save for anything. But I digress.

It sounds like I'm going to have to choose carefully. I don't want to make my financial situation worse. As much as I complain about the bigots and red politics around here, it's been home all my life and I've learned how to live with the hate (which isn't really as much as I let on). Situations like what Reaper Man described are commonplace for me, but once you get used to it, it doesn't sting as much. Even so, day by day the hate lessens and lessens. 20 years ago I would face daily physical abuse for dressing the way I do. Back in the 70's and earlier Appalachia was one place you DIDN'T want to be if you didn't belong here. NO OUTSIDERS!

Thankfully three decades of northern transplants from New England seemed to have changed all that!

Keep em' comin' Carl!

As they say... "watch this space".

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

You're right, my finances aren't any of your business.

But for the record, my least likely job prospect came through today so for the next few months I'm no longer a bum sponging off the system but a productive member of society again. YAY!!!

Before you write off the Pacific Northwest or any other area, LOOK AT THE NATIONAL WAGES FOR YOUR TYPE OF WORK. Or better yet, look on the website of the state Employment Dept. for the state you're looking at. I don't know about other states, but in Oregon, the state gives all kinds of data on the wages of just about any job you can think of and breaks it down county by county.

If you are interested in moving to Portland, the county is Multnomah and the most relevant data will be for the Portland Metropolitan area. Because so much of the state is rural, wages in the Metropolitan Area for almost any job are higher than in the state as a whole.

[moonshadow]

Well, congratulations on the job Dave!

One thing I've about learned in my research over the last several weeks, including this thread is that things aren't as bad as I originally assessed here.

Now to be clear, I (to my knowledge) in no way led on that I'm in a financial struggle. While I'm not filthy rich, I do take good care of myself and the girls with a bit left over at the end of the day. So my desire to explore other options has nothing to do with finances, to the contrary I simply do not want to lessen my financial situation. I live comfortably now and I'd like to hold on that that as long as I can (who wouldn't after all?).

No, my primary issue pertains to some matters that I haven't discussed here in the public board. Nothing that is super major, but has taxed my morale to some extent all the same. Believe it or not, not all of it has to do with my choice in dress. In fact, my employer, while not overly enthusiastic about what I do when I'm off, does basically leave me alone in that regard.

But anyway, as I've studied this issue, I'm finding that it may be wise to just table this to the back burner for a while longer, let tomorrow worry about itself and just see what comes down the tube.

Thank you all for your input. It was much appreciated and valued, and may have contributed to me avoiding a serious mistake. If nothing else, it does tell me quite clearly that I need to be very calculated about this.

In the mean time, while I work this out, I'm happy to continue to chisel away at the issues I face here in the south, to "be the change I want to see in the world", and maybe, just maybe if and when I do leave (or die), this little corner of the planet will be a little better for my efforts.

The New Englanders have helped tame this area immensely. I know I've touched on that several times in this thread, but it really has been a big help in diversifying the Appalachians, introducing new ideas, etc.

So Carl, if you ever do get tired of that New England snow, you've got a friend down here! And just so you know Mr. Friend, a man of your education and experience could probably easily fetch 60-80k and live in a country house for as I said above... under $600 per month. Total housing expenses (utilities, etc) generally stay under $1,000. And yes, there are a few with 10' ceilings!

Just don't wear a skirt to the interview! Not yet anyway... maybe in 10 years things will be different.

[crfriend]

But for the record, my least likely job prospect came through today so for the next few months I'm no longer a bum sponging off the system but a productive member of society again. YAY!!!

There's reason to crow! Congratulations. Being gainfully employed usually does wonders for a man's state of mind. Most men are not idlers at heart.

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

Moonshadow, Carl, thank you for your good wishes.

[Happy-N-Skirts]

It makes a difference what your occupation is. In some areas the job market could be saturated for your skill. In some places you will have a harder time if you are not local. There are a lot of variables. We could advise you better if we knew more about you and your geographic preference. If it is a career issue, then I am sure there are notices in trade publications advertising for your expertise. If you are willing to work at an entry level position, the options are wider. I would never recommend becoming a clerk in an all night convenience store in a rough neighborhood. I was on a jury for a case of a convenience store robbery that went wrong and the clerk was shot. Not my favorite position to aspire to.

[moonshadow]

It makes a difference what your occupation is. In some areas the job market could be saturated for your skill. In some places you will have a harder time if you are not local. There are a lot of variables. We could advise you better if we knew more about you and your geographic preference. If it is a career issue, then I am sure there are notices in trade publications advertising for your expertise. If you are willing to work at an entry level position, the options are wider. I would never recommend becoming a clerk in an all night convenience store in a rough neighborhood. I was on a jury for a case of a convenience store robbery that went wrong and the clerk was shot. Not my favorite position to aspire to.

A problem I seem to run into in national searches is Appalachia is one of those few places where you make still make an honest living with a high school diploma. You won't be filthy rich, but assuming you can pass a drug test, odds are good you can at least be in the $30k bracket in a few years, and that starting from entry level. That may be a laughable salary in places like the west coast, but remember here, the cost of living is considerably lower.

But anyway, as I job hunt in other regions of the U.S. everyone wants degrees in this or that. Give me a schematic or wiring diagram and I can troubleshoot just about any electrical circuit, with the right tools I can change just about any part. I also have a knack for "getting stuff up and running" McGyver style. Once I get my foot in the door somewhere I have a way of gaining people's trust, probably because I'm very open, practically to a FAULT. That's why I'm not good at sales jobs. If it's a dog turd, I'm going to tell you like it is.

but...

I only hold a high school diploma (12th grade education). The fact that I have over 10 years in this industry doesn't account for much when you're not networked and nobody knows who you are.

Basically I'm a Commercial Kitchen Repair Technician. I work on restaurant and institutional cooking equipment. My skills also include self contained refrigeration though I don't like to do it, and I don't have to work on refrigerators where I presently work (too many 3AM wake up calls!)
My job takes me along a 19 store route (more when on call) that is assigned to me alone where I work on the deli equipment including chicken fryers, hood systems, french fryers, food choppers, hot bars, hand wrappers, mixers, toasters, ranges, slicers, bread slicers, convection ovens, conventional ovens, large rack ovens, kettles, soda dispensers, microwaves, steamers, hot dog rollers, bread warmers, hot boxes (hot holding cabinets), rotisserie ovens, proofers, hot display merchandisers, chicken trees, grills, impinger (pizza) ovens, dishwashers, disposers, and other task as needed. I also work in meat departments including meat saws, meat mixer/grinders, tenderizers (cubers), and hand wraps as needed- and that's just where I work now. In the past I've worked on about everything imaginable, walk in coolers, freezers, reach in coolers and freezers, extruders, blast chillers, prep tables, bar glass washers, flight type dishwashers, combi ovens, ice machines, installs, conveyors, deck ovens, plumbing, electrical, register belts, wrapping systems, commercial weighing scales, printers, networking, and buddy if I can't fix it, it ain't broke!
I know gas, steam, electrical, single phase, three phase, 208/240/480 and 120 circuits. Also low voltage 12-24 AC, DC, whatever else I might run into. I can read a meter, troubleshoot live circuits, test elements and motors, coils, contactors, relays, solenoid valves, solenoid coils, problem solve, come up with unique solutions and ideas.

And that's just what I've done in regards to commercial repair

In other prospects I've operated fork lifts, warehouse work, run register, stock, customer service, security, cook, clean, mow grass, landscape, dig holes, and...

I've worked everywhere man I've worked everywhere man, I've crossed warehouses bare man, I breathed the Freon air man, jobs I've had my share man, I've worked everywhere!

Does that help?