Leonard Cohen, dead at age 82

[dillon]

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... 82-w449792

Sad, but given what we are facing now, perhaps a merciful resting in peace.

[crfriend]

Nuts. However, he did have a long and fruitful career.

I suspect he'd use the current situation as fodder for more work.

[dillon]

What's ironic is that his last album "You Want It Darker" was just released two weeks ago. From what I have heard off it, it is just as deep and complexly poetic as all his work. He was a perfectionist. Bob Dylan once asked him how long it took for him to compose the song "Hallelujah"... Cohen said "two years" because he didn't want to admit it had taken much, much longer. He will remain a poet-hero to me.

[oldsalt1]

Cr and dillon you just can't give it a rest Trump won HALLELUJAH

[crfriend]

Cr and dillon you just can't give it a rest Trump won HALLELUJAH

Recall that I've mentioned, on numerous occasions, that I was going to be unhappy no matter which of the proffered candidates "won". Quite honestly, since none of them were even remotely desirable, I'm using the situation as best I can for humour purposes -- and, yes, sometimes I've been known for black humour.

One has a choice: Laugh or cry. The way I see it is that if I didn't laugh I'd be crying right now -- no matter which of the misfits got in -- and laughing tends to prolong life and release good chemicals into the blood-stream that don't have to be artificially introduced.

[dillon]

Cr and dillon you just can't give it a rest Trump won HALLELUJAH

To offer a succinct answer, NO. As I said, I plan to give every measure of respect, cooperation, and benefit of the doubt to Comrade Trump that the Republicans gave President Obama. Get used to it. I anticipate being handed a LOT of ammunition.

Let's see Trump's birth certificate to begin with...

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

"let's see his birth certificate"

Now c'mon Dillon, we don't have to stoop to Trump's level; like you said, the man has shown a distinct talent for providing plenty of ammunition to shoot back at him.

Oldsalt1,

You need to face the fact that Donald Trump won the Presidency the way he has won everything else in his life: by bullying, by disregarding the truth and by name-calling, belittling and humiliating people who didn't kowtow to him. He has succeeded in dredging up all of America's worst inclinations; xenophobia, homophobia, racism, and religious discrimination (or in Trump-speak "freedom of religion"). Just to name a few.

Maybe it will serve us well, as a kid my father explained to me that aeration was a very effective method for killing germs. All along I hoped that Trump would show the Republicans what a toxic brew of hate and bigotry they have been promoting all of these years and get back to their real values and issues. Apparently not yet.

But Dillon,

The answer isn't to fight fire with fire, but to practice the Christian message of responding to Hate with Love. That doesn't mean knuckling under, it means responding to the ugly, dishonest and hate-filled attacks of the Trumpsters with truth, dignity and respectful, straightforward discourse. Attack the message, but not the messenger. If you're in a hurtful mood when you need to respond to something consider this, the haters can't tell the difference between attacking the message and the messenger, but everyone else will! The former will feel wounded, the latter will feel respect for your restraint, also referred to as maturity.

[crfriend]

[... P]ractice the Christian message of responding to Hate with Love. That doesn't mean knuckling under, it means responding to the ugly, dishonest and hate-filled attacks of the Trumpsters with truth, dignity and respectful, straightforward discourse.

The problem with this argument is that everyone loses sight of it in the heat of the moment.

Also, I'll posit that it's not a "Christian" message at all -- it's an ethical one. It's a notion that I strive to adhere to (sometimes which I fail at because I am human and get passionate about things) -- and I'm an out-and-out atheist. This is really a universal message, or at least should be.

Attack the message, but not the messenger.

The problem here is that "shooting the messenger" gives a sense of immediate gratification, and that's what most of us have been immersed in for most of our lives. The question now becomes, "How do we fix that problem in future generations?" Note my occasional interjections here when things start to get heated -- "Attacking ideas in a reasoned debate is fine and even laudable; attacking someone who disagrees with you is most assuredly not." Ultimately, "shooting the messenger" shows one's real colours. The world is watching.

[dillon]

"let's see his birth certificate"

Now c'mon Dillon, we don't have to stoop to Trump's level; like you said, the man has shown a distinct talent for providing plenty of ammunition to shoot back at him.

Oldsalt1,

You need to face the fact that Donald Trump won the Presidency the way he has won everything else in his life: by bullying, by disregarding the truth and by name-calling, belittling and humiliating people who didn't kowtow to him. He has succeeded in dredging up all of America's worst inclinations; xenophobia, homophobia, racism, and religious discrimination (or in Trump-speak "freedom of religion"). Just to name a few.

Maybe it will serve us well, as a kid my father explained to me that aeration was a very effective method for killing germs. All along I hoped that Trump would show the Republicans what a toxic brew of hate and bigotry they have been promoting all of these years and get back to their real values and issues. Apparently not yet.

But Dillon,

The answer isn't to fight fire with fire, but to practice the Christian message of responding to Hate with Love. That doesn't mean knuckling under, it means responding to the ugly, dishonest and hate-filled attacks of the Trumpsters with truth, dignity and respectful, straightforward discourse. Attack the message, but not the messenger. If you're in a hurtful mood when you need to respond to something consider this, the haters can't tell the difference between attacking the message and the messenger, but everyone else will! The former will feel wounded, the latter will feel respect for your restraint, also referred to as maturity.

If we are going to revert to platitudes, my favorites in this case are "What goes around, comes around" and "What's good for the goose is good for the gander." Frankly, I found it laughable that a cheerleader for the victor (a victor ONLY by electoral votes, not popular votes) now wants me to shut up and let his man have free reign. Dream on, dude!! Where was that "give it a rest" attitude when Mitch McConnell was saying "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." To that end I will substitute 'Trump' for 'Obama' and reply "Ditto".

And, BTW, just to point out a bit of hypocrisy trivia, here's an excerpt from a USA Today report refreshing our memory about one of Comrade Trump's many ill-considered tweets: "Many have pointed to an old tweet from Trump in which he called the Electoral College a "disaster for a democracy," a sentiment he doesn't likely feel after Tuesday's election result. He sent the tweet on election night in 2012, but it's unclear what motivated him since President Obama won both the popular vote and the Electoral College."

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

Just to nudge us toward somewhere into the vicinity of the original point of this thread, we have lost a legend.

May he rest in the peace that eluded him in life.

[Sinned]

Well. he may have been a legend but he never really appeared on my horizon, don't know why really because I am generally warmed to the satirical and off-beat. The nearest I got really was Donovan and Dylan. By the sound of it I must investigate his outpourings contributions to poetry and song.

[dillon]

Well. he may have been a legend but he never really appeared on my horizon, don't know why really because I am generally warmed to the satirical and off-beat. The nearest I got really was Donovan and Dylan. By the sound of it I must investigate his outpourings contributions to poetry and song.

Dennis, you may recognize these songs, usually heard as covered by other artists:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o6zMPLcXZ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrLk4vdY28Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zjLBWnZGTU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgEiDc1aXr0

I'd rate Cohen up there with Dylan for his touching lyrical poetry.

[dillon]

And a couple more; first "Democracy", poetry of the strife of the Nation, and second, "Closing Time", which I think is a fitting farewell to the man and his art.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU-RuR-qO4Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-0lV5qs1Qw

[trainspotter48]

I've heard some of his work through my interest in listening to Julie 'Going to the Zoo' Felix, who's been touring the UK since arriving from California in 1964.
You might like to look for Plane Crash at Los Gatos, otherwise known as Deportee among others.

[dillon]

I've heard some of his work through my interest in listening to Julie 'Going to the Zoo' Felix, who's been touring the UK since arriving from California in 1964.
You might like to look for Plane Crash at Los Gatos, otherwise known as Deportee among others.

I'm familiar with the Pete Seeger/Arlo Guthrie version of the song. It was a Woody Guthrie composition. I was not aware Leonard Cohen had covered it, but I will look for it. Thanks.