Linux / Windows

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straightfairy
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Linux / Windows

Post by straightfairy »

Let me say at first I'm a complete computer numpty.
I'm literate, in so much as I can use the internet, spreadsheets, word processors etc, but have no clue about the difference between versions of windows, how to network pcs together etc.
My current pc is 'venerable', some 8 years old but running fine. A good friend has upgraded the internals once already to good effect.
He's volunteered to do me another upgrade / new build using components that are old for him, but much newer and faster than my own. So far so good.
He's also gently pushing to move to Linux from Windows XP and has got my pc rigged up with 4! hard drives.
1 original for storage
1 original running windows xp
1 running linux mint cinammon
1 running linux ubuntu.
While the pc is off, i simply plug the power out of one hard drive into another and boot up using whichever software I want.

A few questions....
1) Would I be correct in assuming viruses etc would be unable to attack my pc running linux? and if not, are there linux anti viruses?
2) What is the Linux software centre like? Is there, for example a decent (free) photo editor like Faststone image viewer?
3) What are the fundamental (ie unseen on screen) differences between mint cinammon and Ubuntu?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks. :)
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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by crfriend »

straightfairy wrote:Let me say at first I'm a complete computer numpty.
One has to start somewhere!
A few questions....
1) Would I be correct in assuming viruses etc would be unable to attack my pc running linux? and if not, are there linux anti viruses?
Strictly speaking, no. Viruses can be created for any computer architecture and any operating system; however, due to Microsoft's market-share and their "run-as-administrator" philosophy (which, thankfully, with Windows 7 and now 8 (spit!) they are getting away from), the overwhelming majority of viruses are tailored to various forms of Windows. In practice, though, viruses for the Linux (and Mac) world are astonishingly rare.

If you feel the need for an anti-virus suite for Linux, there's ClamAV (which I run here to scan e-mail) and a few others.
2) What is the Linux software centre like? Is there, for example a decent (free) photo editor like Faststone image viewer?
There are some very good software packages written for Linux out there. For photo manipulation, take a look at "The Gimp". It's almost as good as Photoshop.
3) What are the fundamental (ie unseen on screen) differences between mint cinammon and Ubuntu?
Well, both use the Linux kernel (although at likely subtle version differences), so there's the main benchmark right there. Where they will differ substantially will be in the GUI (Graphical User Interface) realm, and unlike Windows which has only one GUI "shell" Linux has dozens. Of the assorted window-managers (what the GUI is called under the X-windowing system) I've used in the past, KDE, Gnome, FVWM, OpenWin, CDE, and 4DWM come to mind, as well as the very nice one that ships with Ubuntu.

In this regard, try each one available in turn to see which one you like best. On my 19-year-old PC I use FVWM, a newer one (15 years old) has Gnome, and a couple of laptops have AfterStep. My SGI systems have 4DWM, the Suns, depending on age, have CDE, OpenWin, or Gnome, and the AIX and HP-UX boxes use CDE.
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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by partlyscot »

Warning! I am not an expert!

My feel about virus problems on Linux is this. For someone to cause you problems on a Linux machine, they would have to target it specifically. While in some rare instances, it is possible for a Linux machine to fall afoul of a a virus or worm, there are very few "automated" types of attacks. With a Windows machine, on a much, much smaller scale Macs, there are various ways a bad guy can set up a net to "catch" a vulnerable machine.

The biggest problem out there these days as I see it, are Phishing attacks, the most obvious being the classic Nigerian Prince email. That is, some form of social engineering to trick you into revealing personal ( usually banking ) information. For that, there is no anti-virus program.

If I ever have suspicions about my machine, with a separate hard drive, or hard drive partition for my home folder, I can reinstall the OS in about 20 minutes.
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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by crfriend »

partlyscot wrote:My feel about virus problems on Linux is this. For someone to cause you problems on a Linux machine, they would have to target it specifically.
That's fairly close to true, but recall that all Windows systems, most Linux systems, and all newer Macs use the Intel (or a close compatible) processor chip so all, in theory, could be vulnerable if somebody can escalate their execution privilege to "kernel" level which would give the attacker full access to the hardware and all system resources. Fortunately, with most modern systems this is quite difficult to do thanks to robust permissions control from the OS kernel.

Of the three, Windows is arguably the least safe of the "big three", but that's primarily down to video-drivers which may not receive the same sorts of scrutiny that the OS itself does -- and video-drivers tend to run in kernel-mode which can really cause trouble. Recently, I've been noticing some serious stability issues with the Flash player (which You-Tube uses) up to and including blue-screens. This is probably down to incompetence of the programmers at Adobe (virtually 100% of the function has been outsourced to India) rather than malice anyplace, but it's still infuriating.

Macs and Linux systems likely run pretty much neck-and-neck for security, both being UNIX-variants under the hood (the Mac is a BSD-derivative and Linux is a ground-up UNIX-like system written largely from scratch), and both enforcing separate "user" and "administrative" roles (the Mac more than some distributions of Linux).

The key to decent security is really down to never assuming more privilege on the system than you absolutely need for the task at hand, but still recall that something malicious running as you will be able to do anything to your files (but not the system files) that you could do, so one needs to beware of things like attachments -- especially anything executable -- that could even possibly get run by the machine.

Really the biggest problem these days is social-engineering to get you to cough up personal details, browser-level diversions that may put you on a web-page that you won't notice that it's a forgery. It's almost always easier to "hack the human" than the human's machine.

While in some rare instances, it is possible for a Linux machine to fall afoul of a a virus or worm, there are very few "automated" types of attacks. With a Windows machine, on a much, much smaller scale Macs, there are various ways a bad guy can set up a net to "catch" a vulnerable machine.
If I ever have suspicions about my machine, with a separate hard drive, or hard drive partition for my home folder, I can reinstall the OS in about 20 minutes.
Is that separate disk write-protected so that nothing can be done to it? This is where read-only media rules the day.
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r.m.anderson
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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by r.m.anderson »

If someone is bent on havoc and mayhem why bother to infect these Linux OS machines time would be better spent in getting more/bigger fish to fry !
The sea is full of Windows {Microsoft having gone from bad to worse progressively (W8 spittoeee)} and lots of machines to infect for maximum collateral damage.
Linux no fun here - why bother ?
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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by Tor »

Regarding image manipulation, I use GIMP, and have no complaints. To be fair, I can't say as I've meaningfully used photoshop, and not at all in any remotely recent incarnation, so I may be biased. What I have not looked for in GIMP is automation that I use regularly. For that, I use imagemagick and bash scripting. For starters, to make thumbnails smaller thumbnails of the images in a directory and put them in a subdir you can use something like:

Code: Select all

find . -maxdepth 1 -name "*.jpg"|while read i; do convert "$i" -resize 1024x1024 -quality 60 ./small/"`basename "$i" .jpg`-1024.jpg"; done
Since you describe yourself as starting from little knowledge I'll break this down in detail. Sorry if this is going into too much detail. For starters, the meaning of "find" should be obvious. The dot tells it to look in the directory your shell session currently is in. The "-maxdepth 1" tells it not to look below that directory. The argument to "-name" includes the "*" wildcard, so this will find /anything/ whose name ends in ".jpg" -- which can be a greedy beast, and finer controls exist. The pipe tells this command to feed the images it finds to the next command.

"while" starts a loop, and the "read i" makes it work on each of the images found in turn, with the semi-colon a needed separation. "do" is what to do with each image in turn. "convert" is one of the several imagemagick commands; this one takes an image in, does something to it (according to the operations listed in the middle), and feeds the output to another image file. "$i" refers back to the current image the loop is working on (and is quoted to prevent misbehavior). "-resize 1024x1024" tells convert to resize each picture to a maximum size of 1024 pixels in either dimension (it will maintain proportion unless you explicitly tell it not to). "-quality 60" refers to jpg compression level.

"./small/" will put the resulting image in a subdirectory of that name (this command will fail if this doesn't exist). "`basename "$i" .jpg`" is running a separate command that will strip off the ".jpg" from the end of the image name the loop is working on, and the trailing "-1024.jpg" will cause it to add back the suffix with a note about the pixel size of the image before it. Finally, there is another semi-colon separation and the "done" terminates the loop.

This particular example will not fiddle with the picture foo.JPG because of case sensitivity, but there /are/ ways to make it take these in.

Start playing with the command line (take a little care; it does what you tell it, even if what you tell it amounts to "shoot myself in the foot"). That said, my worst mistakes so far have actually been with GUI programs (like deleting the wrong partition without a perfect backup). For me, it is the shell and the ability to run a computer practically without the mouse that makes going to either mac (which at least has a reasonable, if somewhat lacking (possibly by default only) in commands, shell) or windows unthinkable for me.

On window managers, I've never liked gnome, really liked KDE 3.5, never entirely liked KDE 4.x, and have since gone to Ratpoison (that I cannot recommend to a beginner). Ratpoison takes getting used to, and you need to have some commands memorized or recorded before you even think of trying it, because when you first start it, you get... a /blank/ wallpaper and /nothing/ you do with the mouse will do /anything/.
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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by skirtingseattle »

Frankly, I am surprised that your friend would set you up with a hard drive installation of two distributions of Linux.

He should have burned a couple of different booting Linux images on DVD (that don't require a hard drive installation), so that you could experience what it is like to work in a Linux environment. Boot to the DVD and try a distro. Pop out the DVD and boot to MS Windows. He should have given you time to decide that the learning curve isn't too steep and that you can be as productive or more so on one of these distros rather than MS Windows. As Carl mentioned, there are a lot of different X-Windows that give you a GUI experience on Linux, and some are more intuitive to computer novices used to MS Windows, so don't judge and dismiss Linux too quickly.

Honestly, unless you are a bit of a computer geek and don't mind figuring things out, Linux can still be challenging on brand new systems. However, if you have a 5 - 10 year old computer lying around with at least 500MB, you can install one Linux distro after another and experiment. These older machines have fewer driver issues as the hardware has been around for awhile and all of your hardware just works after the Linux install.

Good luck.
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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by Kilted Musician »

About a month ago I went from Windows8 [yuck] to Linux, Fedora 20 with the Gnome GUI on my laptop. I had a possible virus/embeddable web server, mongoose, on my PC that I didn't install. A good friend, a retired UNIX programmer*, said that trying to get mongoose off of my laptop wasn't going to be easy and recommended an option... to replace my hard drive and install Linux [something I was thinking about doing anyway]. I replaced my 500 GB hard drive with a 1 TB drive for about $75 and installed Linux. So far, I've been real pleased. I'm also learning Linux using the command line!

--Rick

P.S. Thanks for the info re: Gimp. I've been looking for a good photo editing program...

* He knows I wear skirts, kilts, tights, hose and doesn't mind a bit! :)
straightfairy
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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by straightfairy »

Well, I've tried both Linux systems and prefer the Ubuntu at the moment. The only thing stopping me from picking it over Vista is the fact that it won't recognise my android phone when connected through a USB and I'd like to be able to copy/paste pictures(photos) across directly instead of having to use cloud storage.
Any ideas?
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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by Big and Bashful »

I have just downloaded Linux Mint and another distro (Zorin) so that I can play with them and see how they compare to Windows 7. I will probably take some time to install them onto a memory stick, I am not going to multi-boot with Grub because when I have tried that in the past, it turned out to be very difficult trying to get back to a straight Windows boot once I had finished mucking about with the system. Windows isn't very good at fixing boot sectors.
Both of these distributions are supposed to be user friendly to people like me who are more used to Windows, I have seen them reviewed on Youtube and I think they look interesting, which one is better? don't know yet but I look forward to finding out.
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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by crfriend »

I rank among the "computer-savvy" folks in these here parts, but desktop systems have never really been my focus as I'm more on the server side of things. Hence, my "desktop" interfaces tend to be quite Spartan things indeed with a primary focus on text windows for handling command-line work.
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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by Big and Bashful »

With me it is a cunning combination of desktop PCs, stretching back to the pre-pc era of Apricot Zen computers and even an ACT Sirius. Now at work I get to play with PCs on the worst network I have ever seen, geiger counters, ion chambers and neutron detectors, oh an liquid scintillation counters.

The joys!
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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by Charlie »

straightfairy wrote:Well, I've tried both Linux systems and prefer the Ubuntu at the moment. The only thing stopping me from picking it over Vista is the fact that it won't recognise my android phone when connected through a USB and I'd like to be able to copy/paste pictures(photos) across directly instead of having to use cloud storage.
Any ideas?
I use this to connect Ubuntu 12.04 with a Motorola Moto G phone running Android 4.4:

http://www.webupd8.org/2012/12/how-to-m ... mtpfs.html

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an 'official' USB driver :(

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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by Tor »

crfriend wrote:I rank among the "computer-savvy" folks in these here parts, but desktop systems have never really been my focus as I'm more on the server side of things. Hence, my "desktop" interfaces tend to be quite Spartan things indeed with a primary focus on text windows for handling command-line work.
Haven't been around for a bit, but I find myself curious as to what you tend to like, at least for Unix/Linux WMs.

Round about these parts you tend to find me using the /very/ spartan Ratpoison. Actually, my mouse (can't entirely do without one) is on the actual desk instead of on the keyboard tray because I never bothered to move it since I installed the tray... ah... over two months ago, now. Papers have accumulated where the mouse might have gone, and things have accumulated around the mouse leaving a space less that 6"x10" for the mouse to traverse my large screen. Web and email take up a good portion of my computer time, but Conkeror solves almost all need of the mouse for the web, and Emacs makes composing longer emails bearable, allowing me to continue with Thunderbird.
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Re: Linux / Windows

Post by crfriend »

Tor wrote:Haven't been around for a bit, but I find myself curious as to what you tend to like, at least for Unix/Linux WMs.
I'm an oddity in that I'm one of the folks who actually "practices what he preaches", and one of the things I preach is that older computers have their place in the world and can be just as useful as the "latest and greatest" iron on the market. This means that I use things with tiny footprints and limited resources. So, with that in mind here are my choices in *NIX window managers:

1) FVWM -- This is the "frontline" one I use on my primary system and have done so for years. It's such a favourite that back in the 1990s I ported it to the CLIX operating system which shipped with "twm". It's lean, fast, and supports multiple screens and desktop "surfaces". To give an idea, my primary system has 64 megs of mainstore and, for most things, outperforms my Windows 7 system with 3 gigs of memory and a vastly faster CPU. This window manager runs in my environment on CLIX, Ultrix, and Linux, including a couple of laptops. (I also did the Ultrix port.)

2) 4DWM -- This is SGI's window manager and is a delight to use. Unfortunately at the moment all my online SGI systems are running "headless" as compute servers so I don't get to play with the interface often.

3) TWM -- If you need a bare-bones *really* Spartan WM, this is it.

4) Gnome -- This runs on a secondary Linux system that has 512 megs of memory in it (up from 96 recently). Gnome is a bit of a heavyweight, though, and ran like a pig in the smaller memory space.

5) OpenView -- This is Sun's early WM and shipped with the earliest versions of Solaris. Like FVWM, it'll run happily in constrained environments.

6) CDE -- The "Common Desktop Environment" was a consortium effort to produce a common interface across several manufacturers. It works in that regard, but it shows its heritage. E.g. the definition of "camel" -- "a horse designed by a committee". I tend to avoid it same for HP-UX ("hockey pux") and AIX.

7) Environ V -- This is unique to Intergraph CLIX systems and runs like a raped ape on some very constrained iron -- think 5 MIPS and 16 megs of memory. It's not X-compatible but is very functional indeed on the iron it was designed for. It runs nowhere else.

Other random ones include AfterStep and KDE which run on assorted laptops in my arsenal.

Perhaps I should take a look at Ratpoison, but I feel that I have enough to deal with already.
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