Scottish Independence - to be or not to be?

[skirtingtoday]

To help Scots and more especially others understand the question, I have assembled a quick guide to the current position on current devolved powers.

Power in Britain remains with Westminster except for those devolved to Scotland (and of course to Wales and Northern Ireland). The powers devolved to each local parliament vary and those powers are either Primary or Secondary. Primary Legislation mean the country in question can pass their own laws whilst Secondary Legislation means that only some laws passed at Westminster can be varied.

The powers devolved to the three local parliaments cover:-

1 Agriculture, Forestry, Fisheries and Food.
2 Culture, Media and Sport
3 Defence
4 Economic Policy
5 Economic Development.
6 Education.
7 Employment.
8 Environment
9 Foreign Policy,
10 Health.
11 Home Affairs.
12 Legal System.
13 Local Government and Housing.
14 Social Security.
15 Social Services.
16 Trade and Industry
17 Training.
18 Transport.

Scotland has Primary and Secondary powers over items 1, 2 (except for broadcasting and the Lottery), 4 (some limited tax rates), 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11 (though there are quite a few exceptions here), 12, 13, 15, 16 (some powers), 17 and 18.

The devolved powers under item 16 (Trade and Industry) cover for inward investment, trade, exports and tourism.

The exceptions under item 11 cover for drugs policy, data protection, firearms, official secrets, immigration and gambling which remain at Westminster.

Finally under item 4, some limited powers to vary tax rates have been devolved, though this has not actually been used yet.


Following very recent meetings with the Scottish parliament and Westminster, it has been agreed that there will be in Independence vote – a simple YES/NO answer required. Trouble is that many Scots would prefer further devolved powers but that possibility will not be presented as a choice.

If there is a “YES” vote, that would only start a long series of talks with Westminster who could hardly reply with, “No, you can’t have it!”
If there is a “NO” vote, this would probably become the debate many Scots want and that is for further devolved powers. I think that it would also be quite damaging for the SNP (Scottish National Party)


For myself, I will probably go with the “Yes” camp.

[ I note in passing that the vote for independence will be held 700 years after a decisive Scottish victory against the English at Bannockburn in 1314. ]

[RichardA]

It's going to make William Wallace a very happy man

[Kirbstone]

Well, you've got two years to think about it, and that's plenty of time to rebuild Hadrian's Wall !

Of course, after the 'yes' vote the Benign Scots Dictatorship could easily make the wearing of Kilts mandatory in public and Heritage of Scotland et Al will be laughing all the way to the (RBS?) Bank!

T.

[Grok]

Check out a new term-regional state. The UK has been described as such, moving in that direction through devolution. The U.S.A. has been described as moving in the opposite direction, with a federation congealing into a regional state. Northern Ireland has been described as a special case within the UK.

[Grok]

Further devolution would move the UK in the direction of federalism. On a related topic, the European Union has been described as federalizing; but in one web site it was commented that the EU is beginning to resemble the Holy Roman Empire.

[pleated]

Check out a new term-regional state. The UK has been described as such, moving in that direction through devolution. The U.S.A. has been described as moving in the opposite direction, with a federation congealing into a regional state. Northern Ireland has been described as a special case within the UK.

That second link dosn't work. Try-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consociationalism

[Sarongman]

Just an idea from the resident eccentric, but, if Irish schools teach in Irish gaelic, Welsh schools teach in Welsh, then Scottish schools,as a stopgap could teach in Scottish gaelic (the only difference is a matter of inflexion between the two "gaels" Goidetic tongues) however, a team of linguists and the like (I can't think-Tolkien was one EDIT I remembered, the word is 'philologist' ) could try to ressurect Pictish-a Brythonic tongue related to Welsh, Cornish & Breton. The Scots should have a tongue that is truly theirs--- and then they can paint out the English bits on the biligual signs like their Welsh cousins

scot.gif

[Grok]

I was thinking about Sarongman's post....what is the future of Gaelic in Scotland? As for resurrecting Pictish-that sounds very speculative.

If there were to be an effort to resurrect Pictish, would there arise a situation in which some Scots speak Gaelic, and others speak Pictish?

X Marks has a thread http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f260 ... lic-82398/

BTW, how is "Gaelic" pronounced?

[skirtingtoday]

Gaelic is pronounced "Gal-lik" (Gal as in HAL, the computer from the film 2001) if you are talking about Scotland dialect and I think it is "Gay-lik" in the Ireland Celtic language. There is a slight emphasis is on the first vowel in both cases. (ie GA-lik)

The word is derived from "Gàidhlig". Confusingly, Scottish Gaelic is also pronounced as "Gay-lik" by people outwith Scotland.

I also understand that Gaelic is being taught in more Scottish schools and more pupils are taking it as a language.

[Jack Williams]

Well, from a quick appraisal of that, all I can say is: Hooray for the English language.

[Jack Williams]

The maoris are trying to foist "te reo" on us. Give us a break.

[Grok]

Thank you for the clarification, skirting today. I think that I was confused by the Irish pronunciation; I was indeed inquiring about Scots Gaelic.

Another question that comes to mind is about kllting. One member commissioned a "Nukilt." Are non-traditional kilts starting to appear in Scotland?

[Grok]

The maoris are trying to foist "te reo" on us. Give us a break.

Isn't that the Maori name for New Zealand?

[skirtingtoday]

Jack, the English language must be one of the most richest languages in the world but also the must be a nightmare in terms of correct pronunciation.

Take the word segment "ough" for instance and pronounce the words "cough", "though","through", "rough", "thought", "slough" for instance. In French, German or Gaelic, the letters (with/without accents) are only pronounced a certain way so knowing the pronounciation, the whole word can be said correctly.

There was a long poem on here somewhere which went through a lot of these different pronounciations of similar looking words.

[Grok]

A linguist once pointed out that inconsistent spelling was the price of borrowing from other languages. Actually, English will likely become even more diverse in spelling, as more words are absorbed from a diversity of languages. Including a diversity of non-European languages. Also, I have to wonder if English will be influenced by those who learn it as a second language; interactions between non-native but formally trained people from different ethnic groups...can result into something like a new dialect. An example would be the French of Reunion, an island in the Indian Ocean.

I think the future of English will resemble another mongrel tongue, Swahili. A Bantu language that was influenced by Arabic, and eventually absorbed words from European languages. A substantial number of natives speakers, and used by a larger number as a lingua franca in east Africa.

BTW, it has been suggested that English could serve as a global lingua franca. However, English is fragmenting in Asia. The term linguists use in these cases is "patois"-a amalgam of languages. For example, the Taglish of the Philipines-a mixture of Tagalog, Spanish, and English. And there is the Singlish of Singapore, which uses Chinese syntax.

In the long run English may persist in countries which use European languages, just as Latin persisted in Western Christendom.