LAVISH Men's Costumes of the Past

[Since1982]

Thinking of the reference to the Musketeers made me think of the lavish men's costumes of the 1400's to middle 1700's. Primarily the Greek Soldiers Foustenella and the huge hats and flowing costumes and boots of the men in the time of the "Three Musketeers" various movies. With our current men's look leaning towards so many renditions of "penguin looking outfits" I sometimes think we should maybe start leaning towards the past of that time period to give MEN a softer look than the non-differentiating thing we've stuck ourselves in with the Business suits look. After all, the only real thing different with the suits look is what color "pocket patch/tie patterns" the man chooses. Otherwise they all look alike to a large degree.

[crfriend]

With our current men's look leaning towards so many renditions of "penguin looking outfits" I sometimes think we should maybe start leaning towards the past of that time period to give MEN a softer look than the non-differentiating thing we've stuck ourselves in with the Business suits look.

Personally, I've been driving in that direction for quite some time, especially when it comes to "lush" fabrics and cuts. I have several velvet skirts and two silk brocade waistcoats. I am also a big fan of the variously-named "poet's", "pirate", or "Rennaissance" shirt (which look good on their own or under a waistcoast with their billowy sleeves).

One of the reasons I so detest the current male uniform (and the unisex uniform of jeans) is that it's just so drab, both in visual and tactile appeal. There are other reasons, of course, but we needn't dwell on those now. But we can absolutely and certainly mine the past for extravagant styles and bring them forward into our own time and, if we do it well, we won't look outlandish.

[JohnH]

Great idea - but the coat and tie penguin look is so entrenched the only way it will be broken is with a sudden change in acceptable male attire.

It would be nice if the coat-and-tie penguin suit look would be gracefully expanded to have other options, much as what women have done with integrating pants into their wardrobe.

However, I don't think it will happen that way with men's fashions and skirts. I think instead men will go for wearing skirts and dresses along with makeup all of a sudden - that is, crossdressing would become mainstream for men.

John

[crfriend]

I think instead men will go for wearing skirts and dresses along with makeup all of a sudden - that is, crossdressing would become mainstream for men.

That's an interesting thesis, John, and I'd like to read some of your thoughts on the matter.

Personally, I suspect that any change in the status-quo will be very slow and methodical. First will likely be the adoption of garments like sarongs for casual moments; workplace "business casual" might someday see skirts for guys as acceptable (where dress codes exist, that is); and finally would be the notion of skirted rigs for guys in entirely formal settings (excepting kilts, which are already so accepted).

I would be very interested to read what might make such a sea change happen so quickly in what is, otherwise, a very hide-bound territory.

[JohnH]

The reason why I say there might be an abrupt sea-change rather than a gradual introduction of skirts into the masculine wardrobe there are the following items:

1. Andrej Pejic wore feminine appearing attire at a Jean Paul Gaultier's men's fashion show.

AndPejGaultier.jpg

2. There is the "grass-eaters" feminine street fashion for Japanese men

japan-street-fashion-101109.jpg

On the other hand I have seen no meaningful efforts to integrate skirts into standard men's fashions, nor any viable replacements for the "coat and tie" look for men's formal attire.

If gradual changes were to be made in men's formal attire I think it would have happened.

John

[Since1982]

JohnH said: It would be nice if the coat-and-tie penguin suit look would be gracefully expanded to have other options

It does have other options.....ie: more than one color POCKET PATCH...

Plus I don't think on a whole this site is more interested in wearing "feminine appearing attire" than just softening and changing our masculine appearing attire. After all there are plenty of sites meant for men in feminine attire. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see this being one of those.

[JohnH]

Skip, I wish that there could be a softening and changing the masculine appearing attire as far as general society. I simply don't see it happening. I really do not like how a man feels compelled to pass as a woman if he so much as puts on a skirt.

John

[MSpookshow]

JohnH said: I really do not like how a man feels compelled to pass as a woman if he so much as puts on a skirt.

I couldn't agree with you more. As I've started to take care of myself more I've been pushing into the realm of freestyle fashion as I have always wanted to. I just really don't see any reason that a man cannot wear any article of clothing that looks good on his body, without regard for "keeping it masculine". Men can have nice legs, derrières, shoulders, or even curves yet there seems to be a bit of a taboo about wearing clothes to accentuate those things (high heels, shoulder-baring tops, ect). Even among the freestyle fashion community, I've been told that to wear the clothes I want to that I need to make myself look more like a woman (wear makeup, be clean-shaven, ect), and for me that just seems a bit counterproductive. I don't see why a look needs to go one way or the other with regards to feminine or masculine, or even why there needs to be a balance (only wearing 1 item of "womens" clothing at any given time is the rule I've been told before, for example). The clothes the men of the past wore would definitely be considered feminine nowadays, yet they wore them completely as men, albeit pretty men. Yet it seems today most people think that in order for a man to wear something pretty, he must basically fully crossdress. Poppycock I say!

[crfriend]

1. Andrej Pejic wore feminine appearing attire at a Jean Paul Gaultier's men's fashion show.
2. There is the "grass-eaters" feminine street fashion for Japanese men

I rather question whether either of those images are of a man, and if either of them is, then it's the result of spending several hours on prep-work for runway shock-and-awe. I do not see either style even remotely catching on for the average "practical bloke" who wants to be ready to go in some several minutes not some couple of hours.

On the other hand I have seen no meaningful efforts to integrate skirts into standard men's fashions, nor any viable replacements for the "coat and tie" look for men's formal attire.

Aside from the kilt, the notion is still quite new in western circles. Very few guys to date have actually screwed up the courage to wear something on their lower halves other than trousers, and the cut of the normal male jacket does not lend itself very well to pairing off with a skirt (the proportion problem).

We're not going to get relief from the "Fashion houses"; that stuff's almost all "shock and awe" designed to show off how "creative" the designer is rather than produce something functional for the average bloke on the street who is likely all about functional (the "style versus substance" dictum).

If gradual changes were to be made in men's formal attire I think it would have happened.

I'd posit quite likely not. As I mentioned before, the whole notion of guys wearing garments other than trousers in the west is still reasonably new, there is no established context for it, and there are no established norms for it. This, alone, is likely more than enough to scare off all but the boldest (or the craziest) of guys. The above facets conspire against experimentation, especially given the average guy's desire not to stand out in a crowd (one draws fire that way); that's not to say that it'll never happen, just that if it does it will likely happen slowly -- on vacation first -- and then migrate into more day-to-day rigs. In the interim, the only way forward is to be the ambassador -- that means wearing your chosen style out in public; it means taking risks; and it means being able to stand up for yourself if situations suddenly go south for some reason.

Personally, I cannot see either of the styles above getting adopted by anything like even a subset of mainstream men. Imagine trying to change out a flat tyre on the side of a motorway so attired -- and that's a basic skill that most men are likely to have to do from time to time (guys not being the types to call for roadside assistance for anything less than a blown engine or transmission).

[phathack]

Andrej Pejic is a teen aged male model that seems to exclusively model women's clothing.

He easily passes as female when cross dressing, which seems to be what the designers want.
A female with no feminine curves what so ever.

[Kirbstone]

Recently there has been a row in the fashion press about houses using models that are too thin. Perhaps this guy is the answer....

[JohnH]

Personally, I cannot see either of the styles above getting adopted by anything like even a subset of mainstream men. Imagine trying to change out a flat tyre on the side of a motorway so attired -- and that's a basic skill that most men are likely to have to do from time to time (guys not being the types to call for roadside assistance for anything less than a blown engine or transmission).

I could easily change a tire wearing my black velvet dress and medium heel shoes as shown on my avatar.

John

[JohnH]

MSpookshow,

I do shave my arms, legs, and chest as a personal preference, and when I wear a formal dress, I put on light makeup.

As I have written before I don't care if I appear manly or pass as a woman. I simply do what I want, and damn the torpedoes!

[crfriend]

Andrej Pejic is a teen aged male model that seems to exclusively model women's clothing.

Yow! If that shot was of a girl we'd have to pull it on the grounds of kiddie-porn....

He easily passes as female when cross dressing, which seems to be what the designers want.
A female with no feminine curves what so ever.

He passes well as a waif with no curves, if that's what you mean. He does not pass well as a healthy woman. I wonder what his appearance does to the self-esteem of girls who are beginning to grow curves and generally "soften up" as they mature. Given that the Fashion Industry is pushing for a teen-boy look for women, I can't help but think the effect will be destructive for young women.

Too, as a child, he cannot really be considered a man at this point in time. Once he starts acquiring typical male features we'll see what he does with those, but he's not going to look like that forever, just like few of us now look the way we did when we were in our teens.

[MSpookshow]

MSpookshow,

I do shave my arms, legs, and chest as a personal preference, and when I wear a formal dress, I put on light makeup.

As I have written before I don't care if I appear manly or pass as a woman. I simply do what I want, and damn the torpedoes!

I shave all of the above as well. As a bit of a goth AND a makeup artist by trade I've also worn makeup many times. What I was really trying to say was that I just don't necessarily agree with being expected to do those things and appear more androgynous or even womanly in order to wear more than one item from the womens department. Facial hair is often a part of a man's identity, and if you are going to wear a dress as a man, then I don't really see why you would be expected to change that. I guess some people just feel it's too juxtaposed against the femininity of the clothing, but personally I think if we are going to move past that in society and achieve the same amount of style options as women have, then we need to embrace the clothes while retaining our identities (androgynous, masculine, feminine, whatever). People, men included, come in all different shapes and sizes, and that is something we should all be proud of. I actually really like the grass-eater image above, but if I saw him walking down the street I would think he was a lady, so in terms of furthering freestyle fashion for men it probably achieves very little in tearing down the fashion walls. That said, he's definitely rocking it anyways. What I feel we need is men walking down the street in styles like that, though.

Men need to do what they want, and not be afraid to stand out in the crowd if they feel they need to go against the grain. The only way to change what is normal is to be abnormal.