Do fashion designers matter?

[DALederle]

I wondered about this for years now.
I seen enough in my life time to know that fashion designers DO impress women. I've seen pointy toed shoes on women come and go. High high heels follwed by low high heels. Ballet flats followed by sneakers. Maxi skirts followed by mini skirts. Pill box hats with veils followed by no hats at all. Variation after variation. As if women had to have "something" different to wear every year or even every season of the year.
But I've also seen men NOT change year after year.
As if there is something so different about the male mind set that maybe men and women were never meant to know about each other.
Pants and shirts! Period according to most of the men I know. Year after year after year! No variation, no change. As if men are afraid of any change!
Oh, shorts have finally been accepted. And now we have men wearing those baggy, droopy drawered shorts even in the dead of winter (brrrrrr!).
But how much real change has occured in the traditional male monkey suit?
And it makes me wonder if what the fashion designers show each year matter to the male population as a whole!
Personally it would take skirts being sold on the men's section at Walmart or Sears before any of the men I know would take the chance on being seen in a skirt.
Oh, well!
It would be nice if fasion designers could make a difference, since they've been pushing for skirts on men for years.
Actually, I am surprised that the stocking manufacturers haven't pushed skirts for both genders. They will sell far more stockings if people need to show off their legs then if they wear those long pants that cover everything. Anyone know a stoking company willing to take a chance on a new marketing concept? Skirts for everyone!!!!!!!!! Sell more stockings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dennis A. Lederle

[nicothoe]

Ahhh, if only things could change overnight, in the blink of an eye! But as we all know, sometimes it takes generations for society to change. I am part of what is considered Generation X, those who grew up in the 70's and 80's. In my own life time I have seen attitudes towards homosexuality change, and how it has slowly entered into the mainstream media. And while big strides have been made, there is a still a long way to go.

Similarly, it will take some time for the public to fully embrace the idea of men in skirts. There are probably many men out there who like to don on skirts in the comfort of their home, but in their mindset, they are dressing like a woman. These are the people I consider cross-dressers. It isn't the actual clothing that defines them as such, but their mental attitude.

Then you have those people (i.e. you, me, and everyone else in this forum) whose attitude is different with regards to skirts and dresses etc. They don't see these items as belonging solely to the female of the species, and when they put on a skirt, are simply dressing like a man.

Eventually the media will catch on, and you will see people on TV proudly wearing skirts. You will see the rise of handsome heartthrobs - girls screaming at how gorgeous he looks in a skirt - as he shows the world his muscular legs. Other guys will emulate these icons, demonstrating that they too possess the confidence to wear a kilt. Not everyone will look on approvingly - the far ring will express their concern, calling it androgyny or bisexuality. They will lament the decline of society, its morals and the American way of life.

But as with any movement, it's starts out small, and there are always the trendsetters. Another man sees you walking in the street, and thinks to himself, "I wish I had the balls to do that". A girlfriend nudges her boyfriend and whispers in his ear, "you'd look damn sexy in a kilt." People become accustomed to seeing you in a skirt, and start to think nothing of it. Slowly but surely, with more and more visibility, attitudes begin to change.

[AMM]

I seen enough in my life time to know that fashion designers DO impress women. ... As if women had to have "something" different to wear every year or even every season of the year.

This was perhaps at one time true. It's not true any more, except for a very, very tiny fraction of the female population.

Back when I was a kid, there was general agreement as to what was OK to wear where. For middle-class men and women, there was a generally accepted idea of what counted as "well-dressed," and people who didn't want to be seen as downwardly mobile followed it. Women's styles changed more quickly than men's, but not as quickly as you might think, and I think what counted as "well-dressed" had more to do with how women wanted to see themselves than with "dictates" of designers. A successful designer was one who came up with designs that captured the yearnings of their customers.

This all changed in the 1960's, partly because society changed, especially women's roles, and partly because fashion designers (and the industry) lost touch with the majority of women.

At this point, I don't know of any women, except those in the fashion industry, who pay any attention to what is supposed to be "fashionable." They shop regularly, for the same reason that desert nomads are constantly looking for food. Every now and then, they find something that looks good, they buy it, and, if they're lucky, they're able to fit it into their own personal style, otherwise, it goes back or gets given to Goodwill. This is why most women dress better than anything you can find in the clothing shops--they've spent their lives gleaning.

Most designers now, at least the "name" designers, focus on the tiny population of women (and men) who want to dominate their circle of friends with how "fashionable" and "trendy" they are, and are willing to spend a lot of money on this.

[crfriend]

[Modern women] shop regularly, for the same reason that desert nomads are constantly looking for food. Every now and then, they find something that looks good, they buy it, and, if they're lucky, they're able to fit it into their own personal style, otherwise, it goes back or gets given to Goodwill. This is why most women dress better than anything you can find in the clothing shops--they've spent their lives gleaning.

Sapphire mentions this effect as well, but in the context of constructing a proper wardrobe in which the pieces can be alternated off in creative yet stylish ways. This is like what men do, but on steroids.

Blokes tend to have a few pairs of trousers, several shirts, a jacket or two if work or other social demands encourage or require so, ties, and maybe a waistcoat (or if they're really "out there, a few); this seemingly random pile is usually in "safe" colours so it's somewhat difficult to put together something that looks outlandish. Women put a sharp edge on this notion, and therefore must invest more time in learning how to do it with grace and aplomb with a wider colour pallette than guys tend to use.

I know that when I'm working up a skirted rig, I'm more careful with colour than when I'm wearing trousers (of which I have black and grey at the moment) because I don't shy from colour in my shirts, and I have a few skirts in hues that would likely look "odd" in trousers (burgundys and purples). I've learnt quite a bit about colour since taking up skirts, and I've become acutely aware that I may be very mildly colourblind as I can get really confused with blues, reds, and the concentrations of each in various other colours. Thank heavens that Sapphire gently corrects me if I make a colossal blunder!

I also know that I don't tend to follow current trends except in making a judgment call as to whether something that's currently available would look good on me. Complete outfits from the "other side of the aisle" don't work well -- especially tops -- so I'm firmly in the "mix and match" arena. Because of this, I tend to gravitate towards more "timeless" looks than absolute comtemporary in the hopes that it'll be harder to commit a gaffe than with the "trendier" stuff.

[sapphire]

Consider that over time, the roles that one plays in society change, outlooks/attitudes change and size/weight/bodyshape change, as do trends in fashion.

With change comes the need to update one's wardrobe.

As an example, Wednesday night I attended a meeting of the Board of Selectmen and the Zoning Board of Appeals. All of the Selectmen (all male, all middle aged to early senior) were dressed causally: casual slacks, polo shirts, short sleeved solid colored shirts. The Zoning Board Chairman and the editor of the local newspaper were attired in a similar manner.

Now, back in the day when I was growing up, men in those positions would never appear at a public hearing in such casual attire. All of these men grew up around the same time as I did or before.

Over time, these men were influenced by fashion trends.

[nicothoe]

I think the role of many artists is to push boundaries, to try something that is new and daring. Eventually some of these new trends will infiltrate into the mainstream, thus appearing less outlandish with time. We are probably influenced in ways we don't even realize, and if someone informed us of the fact, we'd probably have a hard time admitting it.

[Inertia]

Agreed, the lot of you! And to add my two cents' worth, I'm not certain whether fashion designers influence women's clothing purchases... but availability of clothing surely does. When you want a mini-skirt and the season's skirts are all long, it's dashed hard to find a mini-skirt because the stores aren't selling them. When you look terrible in burgundy and purple and pink, you may be out of luck if the Powers That Be have decided that this season's colours are burgundy, purple, and pink.

So, who decides what I ought to wear? Not me, apparently. The retail stores in my area dictate what I will wear at any given time or season. This explains my addiction to thrift shops -- the selection is much greater, because the styles of cast-offs are from multiple seasons, and some of them will be from seasons when the item I want were available. It annoys me that a bunch of clothing merchants feel they can dictate my tastes to me. I am far too bloody-minded to go along with that, and too old (ie. self-confident) to feel inferior if I'm not wearing what every other fashion-victim is wearing. So, I rebel.

Gentlemen, you're no different. You're not wearing skirts in public as a matter of course because clothing stores are only selling you trousers. Are you going to put up with this nonsense? I doubt it. So, you rebel.

Cheers (and nice to see you guys again!),

Inertia

[sapphire]

On reflection, back in the 50s and 60s I was very aware of what fashion designers were doing. There were certainly many soties in the news about who was wearing what designed by whom. Then came the end of Camelot and the Age of Aquarius.

As for today, Inertia has a good point. I also buy when there is something I like and in seasons when there is nothing I like, I buy nothing.

Now that being said... SHOPPING ALERT!!!!

The US retail chain Dress Barn is carrying a line called something like: taken from menswear, but feminine.

They are carrying several, mostly a-line style skirts in fabrics somewhat reminiscint of menswear fabrics. I picked up a bias plaid skirt in dark purple, gray and black. Its a nice subdued plaid and a skirt with classic lines. Carl looks good it it too. There are a couple of other skirts that I may buy. One that stands out is a nice glen plaid with a discreet red stripe.

For you guys who like a bit of variety in your shirts, the retailer Coldwater Creek is offering a top made from a soft jersey with double collar and cuffs in voile. Carl tried on the one I bought and he looked great in it. It works well with his vests.

Hmmmm... Now I'm imagining Carl in that glen plaid from Dress Barn, the double collared/cuffed shirt from Coldwater Creek and his red vest --- NICE!

[Bob]

There's a great line in the movie "The Devil Wears Prada" in which the "boss" explains how what goes on in the world of couture eventually makes its way down to the mass-produced rack at Target.

[alexthebird]

There's a great line in the movie "The Devil Wears Prada" in which the "boss" explains how what goes on in the world of couture eventually makes its way down to the mass-produced rack at Target.

Actually, it's Casual Corner, not Target. Not that it matters...

[flarob]

Back in the 60's - Yes the designers were closely paid attention to. Today people wear what they want to. Sure they might look at a news clip of a designers styles, but thats about it. Folks dont rush right out and buy the latest 'Style' anymore. They might pay attention to the 'New' color for the year, but not the 'Styles'.

[nicothoe]

There's a new color? I must admit that i have been completely oblivious to what is the current year's color. I guess if i like the look and feel if something, then i wear it. But then, I've always been easy to please....

[silky]

I believe that people in general are a victim of marketing and of what clothing makers and television is telling them to wear. If Oprah endorses it or good morning america creates a buzz about it, people are a little more accepting of the idea.

One other way is if people just think it looks good. My opinion may be misguided, but I am most inspired to wear a utilikilt if I thought women would respond positively. If they thought I looked good in it, that would be all that would matter. Its a subtle thing, but yesterday I went to the library in my khaki shorts, nude pantyhose and deck shoes (no socks). I think the girl working there noticed and was smiling a little -in a good way. That's all the confirmation I need. If she thought my legs looked good, other women might, too.

Now I have to shamelessly promote a thread I started yesterday:
Skirts and Kilts for Men > Women Speak Up http://www.skirtcafe.org/forums/viewtop ... 157#p98405
I'd really like to hear from women, or from what others have heard from women, about what they really like to see in a man with a skirt/kilt.

[silky]

A video that I think illustrates the point. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqxwQJM8-sA&feature Part of the way into it, a drop dead gorgeous girl comes and dances with these guys. This says that these guys are desirable to women in their kilts. I found it on http://men.jupe-skirt.info/videos-of-men-in-skirt.html

[imadube]

There is one way to affect the fashion world to really matter to aide the mens skirt treand -
Get designers of real world main market fashions to add skirts to men wear.
Just imagine who easily it would be to be skirted IF sellers like The Mens Wearhouse would put skirts into the mix.

Otherwise the designers are too far above reality really.