What do we mean by "girly"?

[AMM]

The use of the word "girly" (which, I admit, grates on my nerves, regardless of how it's used) brought up an interesting question:

When we speak of wearing something "feminine", "girly", etc., are we simply saying that it is something that is usually associated with women? Or are we saying it gives (or is intended to give) the effect that the wearer is a woman?

This is a deeper question than it might seem.

I've never been able to come up with a convincing answer to the question: am I attracted to the skirts, etc., that I like because I associate them with women, or even want to, in some sense, be "womanly"? Or are they things I would be attracted to anyway? It's made harder because I'm not sure what it means to "be a woman," other than the obvious definitions based on anatomy, upbringing, and social roles.

(I was inspired to make this distinction because of a critique of the common psychoanalytic interpretation of, for example, a girl who likes to climb trees. The two-bit analytic interpretation is that it's "penis envy." The critics respond that maybe she just likes to climb trees and gender has nothing to do with it.)

Orthodox Crossdressers(tm) (OC's) say they are dressing as they do as an expression of their womanliness. I suspect that some of the insistence on "masculine" fashions here is because people are afraid that the OC's are right.

[RichardA]

Girly - what girls do, or acting girly in a childish manner, how it relates to this forum I have no idea

[stefan]

When we speak of wearing something "feminine", "girly", etc., are we simply saying that it is something that is usually associated with women? Or are we saying it gives (or is intended to give) the effect that the wearer is a woman?

For me I mean somethig that is usually associated with women. Following that definition a skirt would be feminine and a kilt masculin. This does however not mean that I feel feminin or intend to be feminine when I wear a skirt.

/Stefan

[Bob]

For me I mean somethig that is usually associated with women.

Which of the following are girly: childbirth, homemaking, menstruation, breast cancer (and its advocacy), dancing, jackets with padded shoulders (from the 1980's)?

[AMM]

Girly - ... how it relates to this forum I have no idea

There are two threads in this forum, started in the past 10 days, with "girly" in the title.

Or was that not what you meant by "relates to this forum?"

[JRMILLER]

AMM,
I too have been bothered by the word "girly". Too many years of conditioning is likely responsible for that feeling.

Personally, I try my best to stay away from labels, it just gets confusing. I am simply "me" or should I say "I am". I have interests that could associate me with many different labels, but none of them really fit 100%.

Take skirts for example, I have wondered why I like them, the reasons are numerous, ALL of which I have seen enumerated on this website by one person or another depending upon their mood.

I think anyone adopting a label or calling someone else some label just isn't thinking it through deeply enough, perhaps they are just lazy thinkers.... Hmm, I guess that's just another label! My bad!

[RichardA]

Being Joe Blunt and not very tactful "being girly" and "what Richard wrote"
Do we really want cross dressers on this forum I don't mind either way, but I don't want to end up labelled or this forum ending up just for cross dressers it's your choice

[rick401r]

My own definition of "girly" as far as skirts are concerned, would be something with lace or ruffles or a flowery pattern. In which case my first skirt would have been considered girly. It was a buttoned down the front, flowery pattern that looked Hiawiian. In fact, when I picked it up from the free table at work it was folded and I mistook it for a shirt. After I unfolded it and discovered it to be a long skirt, I put it on and was hooked. Now I try to find more gender neutral styles that suit my taste, but I still have the flowered one.

[SkirtedViking]

Women are not commenting whether something is masculine or not and wear it even if it is utterly masculine looking - so may be we should stop too worrying about that.Wear whatever you please and one day it will be mainstream for men, no matter how many years after.

[crfriend]

And when we mention "girly", I do hope that we're not using the term as a perjorative.

My own definition of "girly" as far as skirts are concerned, would be something with lace or ruffles or a flowery pattern.

Interestingly, two of the skirts I wore to work this week featured both ruffles and lace, and they certainly didn't cause any sort of stir about me looking feminine. Too, all of the shirts I wore during the week had some form of floral motif.

It's all a matter of context and how one behaves and presents overall. If you want to get a look at ruffles and lace for guys, one needs only look back to the Renaissance and what men's fashion looked like at the time; it's kind of hard to accuse somebody of looking "less than manly" when he's got a sword at your throat.

In which case my first skirt would have been considered girly. It was a buttoned down the front, flowery pattern that looked Hiawiian. In fact, when I picked it up from the free table at work it was folded and I mistook it for a shirt. After I unfolded it and discovered it to be a long skirt, I put it on and was hooked. Now I try to find more gender neutral styles that suit my taste, but I still have the flowered one.

You should rock that look more often! Unless, of course, it's a cherished memory and place-holder, in which case I shall withdraw the comment.

[sapphire]

To me, "girly" is the ultra feminine and fun frivolous stuff that female humans can get into when attiring and decorating themselves. Like when I wear my tiara and color my hair all sorts of colors and wear a mini skirt and lots of lace and bows.

There are men who like to do the same thing, but I do not think this forum is the place for such frivolous fanatsies.

[Uncle Al]

To me, "girly" is the ultra feminine and fun frivolous stuff that
female humans can get into when attiring and decorating themselves.
<snip>
There are men who like to do the same thing, but I do not think this
forum is the place for such frivolous fantasies.

Sapphire, I agree with your highlighted statement 100%
You've 'hit the nail on the head' with that and I personally
feel that the term "girly" is not appropriate for this forum.
Again, this is my opinion.

Uncle Al

[AMM]

To me, "girly" is the ultra feminine and fun frivolous stuff that female humans can get into when attiring and decorating themselves....

There are men who like to do the same thing, but I do not think this forum is the place for such frivolous fanatsies.

So if we guys want to enjoy "fun frivolous stuff," we have to go somewhere else? We're only welcome here if we want to do serious, masculine stuff?

[crfriend]

So if we guys want to enjoy "fun frivolous stuff," we have to go somewhere else? We're only welcome here if we want to do serious, masculine stuff?

From a personal perspective, I'd have to very forcefully say, "No!" to the notion that guys shouldn't occasionally indulge themselves in "frivolous stuff" -- for to engage in that prohibition would further castrate the already somewhat fragile male psyche.

From this writer's perspective, things are already narrow enough for guys -- and what possible harm is there in the occasional daydream or musing as to whether one can be "cute", or "alluring", or even possibly "beautiful" in one's attire. All of those qualities -- and they represent desireable qualities for one of the sexes, I'll add -- are important ones, and I see no reason why the gentlemen should be denied them. This is nothing more than an expression of the "no harm, no foul" adage.

It's ticked me off for years that guys are supposed to always be the stoic types who never -- even under the sternest challenges -- show emotion: this is, bluntly, bulls**t! I know that I'm human; I know that I feel; I know that I can be hurt; and I know that emotion needs a productive outlet. From experience, I can say that suppressing emotion frequently leads to unintended consequences -- and daydreams such as listed above constitute emotion; why suppress them? What's the point? What "good" can come of it? What harm?

I'll admit that when I'm working up a skirted look I don't think, right off the bat, "Will I look cute in this?". Rather, I think, "Is this believeable, and does it look good?" If I can be "cute" in it, that's gravy; if it'll enhance the chances of "getting lucky", that's a bonus; if it'll make me look "beautiful" and help solidify my long-term relationship, that's bliss.

Don't suppress emotions, for, I suspect, that down that path madness lies. So, yes, I cry on occasion; I also laugh. I dream. I have flights of fancy and fantasy. I regard these as healthy and an integral part of who I am. Don't deny yourself the notion.

[sapphire]

I understand what you are saying, but I do think that this forum is for men who want to explore skirt/dress wearing and still be perceived as men.

If you really feel the need to borrow my tiara and have me apply makeup on you, I will happily do that (perhaps some rhinestone sparkles) funky nailpolish (and you know what I mean), we can certainly go play in that area.

Still, as I read the rules of this forum, I do not think that what I offer above is part of the direction this forum intends to go.

Oh gosh, I've been threatening to braid and bead your beard for years........