Alternate universes

[crfriend]

It's been well documented for some time now that guys in skirts are well-accepted in the "Goth" subculture. There's also ample evidence that kilts (and possibly by proxy skirts) have a high level of acceptance in the "Steampunk" subculture as well.

The question here is, "In how many other subcultures are skirts accepted on men?" If the phenomenon is accepted in enough subcultures, there might already be enough thrust to drive it mainstream. There are a couple of designers trying to push it skirted looks on guys at the moment (badly); I wonder if there's a way to come at the notion from behind using already-extant communities.

[Inertia]

Well, I've never attended a science fiction convention without seeing at least a few male fans in kilts or Utilikilts. They are a subculture who tend to go out of their way not to be mistaken for mainstream people -- like most subcultures, come to think of it. You might say I married into the science fiction subculture, and have had a fair bit of exposure to its participants. Conventions are fun -- everyone pretty much lets his/her own inner fantasies hang out, knowing the environment is one of acceptance, and it's interesting to see what lurks in people's heads. Obviously a number of men in this category have fantasies of comfortable unbifurcated clothing!

Cheers,

Jill

[AMM]

The question here is, "In how many other subcultures are skirts accepted on men?"

Contra dancing is one. If you go to NEFFA (a month from now, just down the road from you in Mansfield), you'll see at least a dozen men in skirts in the crowd (including me.)

I am also told that in gatherings of the remnants of the Counterculture, such as Grateful Dead gatherings, Rainbow Gatherings (link obtained from Butterfly Bill), etc., you'll see men in skirts.

If the phenomenon is accepted in enough subcultures, there might already be enough thrust to drive it mainstream. There are a couple of designers trying to push it skirted looks on guys at the moment (badly); I wonder if there's a way to come at the notion from behind using already-extant communities.

I'm not holding my breath. Ideas seldom percolate from subcultures into the primary culture; when they do, it's usually because they tap into something that the primary culture already craves, for example, Gansta Rap became cool in White cluture because of its legitimization of violent, antisocial, and misogynistic behavior.

[Skirt Chaser]

Burning Man festival always has skirted men.

Renaissance festivals- always Utilikilts there on the people who didn't even wear a costume just because the attitude is much more relaxed there and you've got a bunch of historically influenced costumes that may be skirt or dress like- long tunics on knights and such not to mention the large numbers of tartan kilts.

Fantasy subculture too, almost every wizard out there has a robe.

[crfriend]

[...] Ideas seldom percolate from subcultures into the primary culture; when they do, it's usually because they tap into something that the primary culture already craves, for example, Gansta Rap became cool in White cluture because of its legitimization of violent, antisocial, and misogynistic behavior.

I was more thinking along the lines of that if there's enough interest in enough subcultures there might well be an interest in the mainstream culture, even if it's at the moment suppressed. As far as "Gansta Rap" is concerned, that idiom is well expressed by the moniker given one of its sartorial accoutrements in the mainstream -- the "tank top" (UK, "vest"), aka "wife-beater".

I suspect interest exists, else there would not be so much of a societal hangup about cross-dressing. My musing had more to do with, "How can that latent interest be channelled into something positive?".

Burning Man Festival [...] Rennaisance festivals [...] Fantasy subculture [...]

There's three more; at some point, the volume of subculture acceptance of skirted rigs on guys has to approach a meaningful percentage of those in the mainstream -- even if the "participants" (in subcultures) deny it in their mainstram personae.

[Skirt Chaser]

Oh the places my mind wanders. I realized the Burger King mascot King doesn't wear pants, just his royal robe, long shirt/dress and hose. Victorian Father Christmas is robed as well, while neither are subcultures they are visible and accepted public figures.

[bareman43]

I was at a recent small party, dressed in a long denium skirt, sweater and tall boots, it was the middle of winter, when 2 women entered with a TV. Nice enough looking, long hair, conservative makeup, nice blouse, manicure, pumps, pantyhose and Levis jeans. I would think the jeans would be the first thing to change, but with so many women wearing pants maybe that isn't the case. Maybe the transition is easer when one doesen't have to change pants. We didn't get a chance to converse about his/her choice of wardrobe.
I find the more I wear skirts, the more I wear exclusively skirts. The only place I can't wear is at my daughters house, around the kids, her request, I hope that changes, and at work.
I'm skirted whenever I travel, air or land, on the town, at Burningman, SciFi Conventions, etc.
I have tried a skirt when riding my CanAm trike but it doesn't work too well, maybe I haven't found the right skirt yet.
I reall enjoy skirtcafe even though I don't post that often.
Bareman

[Jock]

I was at a recent small party, dressed in a long denium skirt,

Ah yes Denium, the recently discovered element, possessing the property of producing invisibility when woven into men's skirts.

... when 2 women entered with a TV.

Perhaps they wanted to be sure of not missing the latest episode of "Lost"!

I find the more I wear skirts, the more I wear exclusively skirts.

Yes, its wonderful, isn't it? One becomes completely at ease in a skirt, and pants are then the strange garments. Enjoy the feeling!

[Grok]

Subcultures

[Grok]

Science Fiction fandom

This is the subculture that I am somewhat familiar with. Other than kilts, it is not very relevant in terms of clothing. The costumes worn include:

1. Historical costumes

2. Fantasy costumes. These are often based on film/television, and generally don't challenge the sacred dress code of Western Civilization.

BTW, science fiction/fantasy may well show the limits of what the general public is willing to imagine-loose robe-like garments, either hooded (Star Trek, Star Wars) or not (The Lord of the Rings). Other male characters are almost invariably in trousers.

[r.m.anderson]

Yeah!

So much for "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century"!
Except for Hollywood (or Bollywood) nobody has a ghost of an image of what
we will be wearing in future generations or a so called dress code of the times!
The Creators design was perhaps to have an universal nudist theme; but then
the fig leaf society decided that changes needed to be made to this grand plan.
Such is evolving life as we know it.

"Kilt the Light Fantastic"
rm

[Grok]

Interesting to see just how far a subculture can go. Check out www.the-black-angel.com and look at mens' clothing. It seems that men can order long, black Goth skirts.

[Raakone]

One thing I noticed, it seems that, in "mainstream", the idea of a guy wearing any kind of kilt or skirt or unbifurcated garment is some kind of "third rail", EVEN IN Fantasy and Sci Fi.

At one point, you had men in Star Trek: TNG wearing "Skants" (as fans often call them, because "tunic" could be mistaken for some kinds of jacket worn with uniforms), but they were seldom more than background characters, and sometime in the second season they were phased out completely, you never saw anyone on Deep Space Nine in them.

Also, if you paid attention to the words in the Harry Potter books, you get the idea that robes are the only thing worn by the students of Hogswarts (including the infamous "memory replay" of Snape's youth) But in the cover illustrations, especially for the American version, and in the films, you get the impression that the robes are simply outer layers (worn over English-style school uniforms) Big difference, eh?

Not to mention that a lot of images of wizards I see, yes, they have robes, but they make it obvious they're wearing (usually matching) trousers or balloon pants underneath.

And in another stream of thought....well, I have something that couldn't be considered part of a "lifestyle", yet, but I commissioned a costume, kind of inspired by the "Kigurumi" or animal onesies...except....skirted. The way I see it, I'm doing to the nightshirt what the Kigurumi did to one-piece PJs.

Hopefully things won't be so "third rail" soon...third rails....good for subway trains, not so good for some other things!

[dillon]

A couple decades ago it was not uncommon to see male Deadheads in skirts/dresses at concerts. The garments were usually tie-died. Hard to believe this year will mark twenty years since Jerry Garcia died.

[skirtingtoday]

Here is an old article from 1995 which confirms that men wore skirts at Jerry Garcia's memorial concert.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/1995/a ... -hundreds/

So when is this "alternate universe" going to become the "current reality"? It's been too long so far!