I found this and think it explains our want well

[Pythos]

Quoted follows:

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=7287&

Men’s Fashion Freedom
Bringing Back Fashion for Men

Men's Fashion Freedom
http://mensfashionfreedom.bravehost.com/ is a strong supporter of fashion freedom for men. This website supports any man in the fashion that makes him happy.

History of Men’s Fashion

Men have worn dresses throughout history. We know these dresses as robes, togas, caftans, kimonos and the Saudi Thaub. There are many other dresses that men wear or have worn throughout men’s history. Men have also worn open shoes throughout their history. Sandals were the shoes of choice in Africa and the Middle East, where scientists believe that humanity first existed on Earth.

It is believed that men first decorated their bodies with chalk from soft rocks in order to camouflage themselves when hunting. They soon discovered that this chalk could be used in creative ways to enhance their appearance. Tribes in Africa still use similar methods to decorate their bodies. The particular markings on their skin identify their tribe.

While hunting and fishing, men discovered that shells and other semi precious stones could be worn both to enhance their appearance and to identify their tribe. This brought about the first jewelry.

Men would have had long hair during much of the caveman era, as cutting implements were not yet designed as our current day scissors. Long hair was very stylish for men during the fifteen hundreds through the early nineteen hundreds.

Earrings for men are not new. During the nineteen eighties, it appeared that earrings for men were becoming popular and the majority of Americans believed that this was a new phenomena. The truth is that men have pierced their ears since tribal times. In Africa, there are many men with pierced ears and long dangling earrings.

Stockings became fashionable during the reign of the Roman Empire. The Romans shortened their armored skirts and wrapped their exposed legs in stockings. There were different versions of socks worn well before the existence of the Roman Empire.

Changing Society's Norms

Society creates many normative unwritten rules. Some of these rules may be helpful to society, but most of these rules create unnecessary restrictions on people. These norms became highly restrictive when the Puritans in America misinterpreted the Bible. The strict norms created by the Puritans were carried around the world by the advances in communication. Many of these norms were adopted around the world, but fortunately not all.

There were norms restricting women throughout history. The biblical interpretations of the Puritans added further significance to the rules that restricted women. Men created rules for women that restricted their role in the world.

Women have rebelled and won their freedom from these societal norms. These norms were difficult for women to overcome because they represented the power of men over women. Women had to struggle to get relief from the norms they had succumbed to.

Men have been restricted by societal norms just like women. It is time for men to rebel and end these unwritten societal norms. The rebellion will not be difficult, since society is ready for men to break the mold. Men have been working on breaking these norms for some time now. It is time for men to exercise fashion freedom. As people see men exercising fashion freedom, they will learn to accept men's fashion freedom and the societal norms will be overcome.

Men's Freedom

Men!!! Stand up for your freedom! Men have ruled the world for thousands of years!! Men have worn dresses, skirts, stockings, heels, makeup and earrings for thousands of years!!!

It is time to take a stand and take back our fashion freedom!!! Men have ruled women for thousands of years and in only two hundred years they have gained a great deal of freedom. This freedom should not be at the cost of men’s freedom. We can all be free together. There is no reason for one gender to have freedom at the cost of the other.

Put on your skirts, hose, heels, earrings and anything else that expresses your fashion sense without fear and without shame!! Let the world know who you are! The way that you adorn your body will be accepted as long as your adornments do not physically hurt another person. The world will respect you for your statement and all fashions for men will become accepted.

Fashion freedom for men can and will be accomplished. Your stand on this issue will make it happen. Do not allow fear to prevent you from exercising your fashion sense. If women allowed fear to rule their fashion sense we would never have seen the miniskirt or women in pants. If women can add pants to their wardrobe, then men can bring back skirts, hose, heels and earrings. Freedom must be for all people equally in order for any person to truly be free!!

Makeup for Men

Have you ever looked in the mirror and wished that you could fix a blemish on your face. If you are a woman, you put your makeup on and cover any blemishes. As a man, you simply learn to live with your imperfections.

Why live with imperfections that can be eliminated with makeup? Makeup for men is not new. Actors and news male news anchors have used makeup for as long as color television and movies have existed. The average man has not used makeup because of a fear of not appearing manly. Menaji appeared in the Augusta Chronicle for creating makeup that enhances a man's appearance. Fear no more! Makeup for men is here and using it will make you more of a man. In fact it will make you more attractive.

You ask. Why do women use makeup? Makeup hides blemishes and makes you look more natural.

"Not all women look more natural in makeup," you say. That is true, but that is because of how the individual applies the makeup. The purpose of makeup is to improve your looks. How you use it determines whether that goal is achieved or not. So get out there, experiment with makeup and look your best!!! Fashion UK describes men using makeup as a growing trend in the article Men and Make-up!!!

Hair Removal for Men

If you have never tried shaving your legs, you are missing out. I used to have the hairiest legs going. My legs were so hairy that I was embarrassed to show them. Even my friends commented on just how hairy they were.

I finally got up the nerve to shave them and it felt great. My legs felt lighter and everything that touched them felt softer. Not to get too personal, but I never understood why thread count in sheets mattered before I shaved my legs. Now I can tell the thread count by how soft the sheets feel on my legs.

There are many methods to shave your legs. I tried using a standard razor, but the hair re-growth on my legs was noticeable in three days. I then tried depilatories and they work well, but they are difficult and time consuming to use. I tried waxing and while it worked well, I could not stand the pain. I finally found my method in an epilator from Epilady. While they do not make an epilator "for men" their epilators are the least expensive and they work wonderfully. I can now go for up to a month without epilating my legs and after every use less hair grows back.

Pantyhose for Men

Pantyhose are only for women, right? Wrong!!!

Pantyhose are an improvement of stockings. Stockings extend up the legs, but require garters to stay up. Stockings were invented during the time of the Romans. Women started wearing stockings then because they wanted to make their legs look pretty. Right, you ask?

Good guess, but no. The Roman soldiers were wearing short skirts because the armor plating on their skirts was heavy. A short skirt allowed for less weight and freer movement. The Roman soldiers did not like the look of their hairy legs and they developed stockings.

Men stopped wearing stockings when pants became popular. Pants became the standard for men since having inner leg protection made horseback riding much easier. Since men were no longer showing their legs they no longer felt the need for stockings.

Men no longer ride horses for transportation, so more and more men are showing off their legs. This is making pantyhose and tights become more popular for men. Men like the feel of pantyhose and the look. As is true for women, pantyhose help enhance the look of men's legs.

Skirts for Men

Just like with pantyhose, skirts are only for women, right? Wrong!!!

Skirts were developed for men, by men. The Roman army designed an armored skirt because a one-piece armored robe (dress) was too heavy. The Romans made the armored skirt short so that it would be lightweight and allow free movement.

Men wore skirts regularly until four hundred years ago when knickers were invented. Men wore knickers in order to ride horses. Most Western men stopped wearing skirts and wore knickers all the time.

In Scotland and Ireland men continued to wear skirts that they called Kilts and they are still wearing them today. The influence of Western culture caused much of the world to give up their skirts and dresses for pants.

This is finally changing. Men are no longer riding horses for transportation and they are starting to wear skirts again. Many men are wearing Kilts that do not include a family Tartan. Many men are wearing skirts that are designed especially for men and other men are wearing skirts that women typically wear.

Men are finally realizing that skirts are not gendered. A skirt worn by a man is his skirt. Skirts look just as great on men as they do on women. If you are a man who has never tried wearing a skirt, you will discover a fabulous addition to your wardrobe in skirts. Choose any style that you like and you will be wearing skirts for the rest of your life

Here are a few stores that sell men's skirts today.

Macabi Skirt: The Original Adventure Travel Skirt: Clip into Pants, Snap into Shorts, Love Those Pockets!

Men In Time: A Men's Skirt Company in Germany.

Midas Clothing: A select range of kilts, skirts, tops, tunics and dresses for day and evening wear You can find more stores for men's skirts on the links page.

Earrings for Men

Earrings for men are now accepted as standard accessories. Young men often have at least one ear pierced from when they were children. Just like girls, boys are starting to get their ears pierced. The old belief that a man with a pierced ear or ears is rebelling is no longer true. Men have earrings because they want to and not for any other reason.

Handbags for Men

Men have carried things around since realizing that things can be used as tools. Carrying these things around has always been a problem. Tools come in all different sizes and shapes and some tools are more delicate and should not be touching any other tools.

Pockets in clothing seemed to resolve this problem nicely for many years. But pockets can only hold so much and do not keep things separated. Full pockets also weight down clothing and become uncomfortable.

Men carry more things today than ever before. Not only do some men carry tools from the hardware store, but many men carry cell phones, pagers, handheld computers, change, and wallets full of credit cards, business cards, money, pictures and the list goes on. Men have found a solution to carrying tools from the hardware store in a tool belt. But the only solution that has accommodated all of the other tools has been belt clips and now men's waists are getting covered in tools.

Women have eliminated this problem by carrying purses or handbags. Handbags have pockets for separating things so that they do not get damaged and can handle many things in only one container. New handbags even have spaces for cell phones and handheld computers.

Handbags are just as great for men. Not only are there stylish handbags for men, but also they are just as versatile as women's handbags. Some of the stores that carry men's handbags do not currently have them listed online, but you can check in almost any leather store and you will find men's handbags. They are usually called bags, men's bags or Euro bags.

Open Toed Dress Shoes for Men

It is about time that open toed dress shoes for men were designed!!! Women have been wearing them since the nineteen twenties.

My office, as with most American offices, has a policy that open toed shoes are banned and yet there does not appear to be a single woman who obeys that rule. In fact, the rule is usually described as a way to keep beach sandals out of the office. However, women even wore those shoes in the office.

Men on the other hand are so accustomed to wearing closed toed shoes that they do not even complain about policies against open toed shoes in the office. It is time for men to have equal rights for our feet!! Open toed dress shoes for men would help keep men's feet cooler in the summer and would provide men with a reason to care about how their feet look. Men often do not take care of their feet because they never see them. Socks and shoes are always covering their feet.

It is time for men to go sock less and wear open toed dress shoes. Not only is it cooler to wear open toed shoes, but also not wearing socks is almost a bigger advantage. Many men have started to wear nylon socks or pantyhose because they are more comfortable and much thinner than cotton socks. The sheer style of nylon also actually shows a man's ankles below his pants. With open toed dress shoes a man could wear or not wear nylons and still look great just like women do. It is time for men to have opened toed dress shoes.

Men’s Rights

How many times have you walked into the office on a warm day to see women walking around in short skirts and high-heeled sandals? How many times have noticed women wearing sleeveless blouses? But, somehow this is not for men to do.

While some men are allowed to wear a short sleeve shirt in the office, most men are required to wear long pants, socks and professional shoes. As far as I can tell, there is nothing unprofessional about high-heeled sandals and sockless feet. They never stopped any work from being completed. Not only are women cooler and more comfortable, but also they are allowing the beauty of themselves to show. Men’s feet can be manicured and can look just as great as women’s feet look in nice high-heeled sandals.

Men have the same rights as women when it comes to comfort. Men deserve the right to adjust their clothing to match the weather and to show the world that they are attractive. Men have legs, feet and even arms, but to look at most men most of the time you would not know that. It is time for men wear skirts and heels and short sleeve shirts and even sleeveless shirts.

You say that men’s underarms are not attractive due to hair. I say that men can shave under their arms just as women do. If men can shave their legs they can shave under their arms too. In fact, there are some men that already do.

Men are taking back fashion freedom. Nail polish can be found on men’s toes and fingers. Skirts are becoming more and more popular for men. Thousands of men are shaving their legs and many are wearing pantyhose and tights. Men are also stepping into their high heels and loving it.

It is time for men to have equal rights!!! Why let women have all the fun?

Men's Legs

Have you ever noticed that women do not look at men’s legs or feet most of the time? This is because of men’s pants, socks and shoes. If men were to actually show off their legs and feet, women will start looking. Women make the effort to look good for men and now it is up to men to return the favor.

You say that it looks strange for a man to wear a skirt and high heels. I say it was strange to see women in pants. I also say that men have worn skirts, dresses and high heels as recently as four hundred years ago and less.

Men’s shaven legs look great. Male models always shave their legs in order to show off the muscles rather than hair. If hairy legs were attractive, why would male models shave? The Romans designed an armored skirt, but it was too heavy and they shortened it so that it would be comfortable. Their legs were bare and they liked showing them off. They designed the first tights to show off their legs without showing off hairy legs. Once again the hair was the negative. Shaving your legs is not really that difficult and shaven legs feel great, ask any woman. You can shave your legs through many methods, but whatever method you choose, your hairless legs will be much more attractive.

As more and more men take the time to groom themselves, more women will be looking at those men. Women do not look at men as carefully as men look at women today, but that will change.

For thousands of years men have considered women as property and in some parts of the world this is still true. Therefore women have not looked at men for beauty; instead women have looked to men as masters. Now that women in many societies are no longer property, they are starting to look at men in the same way that men look at women.

Men are starting to enjoy fashion and women are supporting them. It is time for the world to accept the softer, gentler and more attractive man of the postmodern era. It is this very change in men that is leading to a better looking and more caring world.

Men's Hands and Feet

Men’s hands and feet have for thousands of years been neglected. Men worked with their hands and used their feet for transportation. The concept of caring for these important body parts was not really considered.

Throughout the ages this neglect has not been true of all men, but of most. The rulers of the world always took care of their bodies, because they did not do the hard physical work of the common man. The products used by these rulers were considered luxuries and were not even available to the common man.

Products for skin care have become affordable for all people and many men are not working in physical labor jobs. Men are now using skin care products rather than destroying their hands and feet through labor. Even men who are still handling physical labor jobs are finding that caring for their hands and feet can be a great benefit. Just because your hands are used in labor does not mean that they have to look like it.

The better men care for their hands and feet, the more that men want to show off these appendages and why not. Nicely manicured hands and feet are great to look at and feel great too. Polished nails enhance the look and make you feel even better . Men are wearing high heels just as the kings of the sixteen and seventeen hundreds did. High heels show off manicured feet, make you taller and feel incredible. Try wearing a pair and you will soon understand why.

It is time for men to get out their hands and feet and show them off!!

Men's Free Fashion Expression

Expressing yourself with pride is something that we all want to do every day. But many of us are concerned with how we are perceived by others. We worry about what people say about us and how others really feel about us.

The truth is that people have become a great deal smarter. The prejudice that used to pervade society is not entirely gone, but greatly reduced. Most people are also afraid to criticize others, because they do not want to be criticized either. Most people do not like political correctness, but it has made a positive difference in today's society.

This allows for a man to express his fashion freely and with Confidence. There is no longer a need to be fearful of what others may say or do. You can express your fashion sense without concern.

It is important to remember that how you appear to others does have an effect on how they will treat you. If you look like you are doing something wrong or improper, other people will see your shame and might respond to it. Read more at How to Express Fashion Freedom.

When thinking of expression fashion it is important to remember that all people are different. The expression methods that you choose may not be the same as any other person. Respecting the choices of others is not only a way to for you to feel freer to express your fashion sense, but also a way to show others that you care. Read more at Thinking About Fashion Freedom.

All people desire to have freedom of expression. It is important that we exercise that freedom and allow others to do the same. To discuss your ideas and resolve issues that you might have with fashion freedom for men visit any of the Discussion Boards on men's fashion freedom.

Confidence

We have all been there. You desire to do something, but you are concerned about what others will think. You are worried about what members of your family will say. You are concerned with how others will treat you once they know that you do something taboo.

Fret no more!! The world is not half as concerned as you think it is. You may run into problems in a work environment, but the general public will hardly notice the change. Just explaining to them that men have only worn pants for four hundred years can console even families. Once you tell people that men have worn high heels, stockings, earrings and the list goes on, the people accept you and your new look.

The experiences of men vary, but very few are negative. The negative responses come only from individuals that have issues they are dealing with. There will be very few negative responses waiting for you and if every man who desires fashion freedom expresses himself through fashion, the remaining men will be in the minority.

Take the time to express yourself through fashion. You will not regret it and you will never look back. Enjoy your fashion freedom!!!

How to Express Fashion Freedom

The most important factor in fashion freedom expression is not the fashion style, but the attitude of the individual. Whatever fashion you express, express it with pride, confidence and comfort. If you look afraid or uncomfortable, people will notice. Have you ever had your eye attracted to the look of a person that was surprising to you? Do you remember how the person carried him or herself? The odds are that you do.

I remember seeing a tall man getting on a train and he looked very uncomfortable, even afraid. He was wearing a shirt, shorts with the word Boys on the back and a sheer pink robe. He looked around at all of the people looking at him and his eyes showed fear. He was seen as an oddity on the train. On a different day, I got on the train in a skirt and some people looked at me, but I walked with confidence and with pride. I looked like I belonged on that train in a skirt, no different than any other passenger. If anyone felt that I was an oddity in my skirt, they did not show it. The other passengers felt my confidence.

When you make your fashion statement, do it with pride and with strength. You have every right to express yourself as you see fit. Enjoy your newfound freedom and do not ever let it go.

I believe that a man can look masculine in a miniskirt, heels, hose, wig and makeup. Why, you say? Miniskirts do not change your gender, nor do heels or hose. Wigs can enhance your appearance and many women used to wear them regularly to go back and forth quickly between short and long hair. Men could use wigs in the same way. Many men are now wearing makeup and in fact use makeup to enhance their masculine look.

I truly believe that men can use everything that women use to enhance their looks for the same purpose. In fact men first wore heels, hose and skirts. Makeup was used by men and perhaps by women to identify themselves as part of a tribe. African tribes still use this same method for identifying tribal members, especially during war. Tribes use hand to hand combat and identifying makeup is a quick way to decide who to kill and who to protect.

One of the biggest issues here is our frame of reference. All of the things that women use today to make themselves more attractive were at first questioned by those who did not understand. Rather than questioning motives we should look at the end result. If a man looks completely feminine then that look is not accomplishing the goal of enhancing the masculine look of a man.

By the same token that man who now looks feminine should not be chastised. Every person is free to look and feel good. Remember that someone you find unattractive, another can find beautiful. Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder.

Our efforts for men's fashion freedom should be for all men to have total fashion freedom. There are women today who wear ties. Ties are a non-essential male garment or are they? Ties are a part of a man's suit, yet they serve no purpose. Ties are now a part of women's wear and yet they still serve no purpose.

Some men have said that they want to wear bras. A bras for women servse a purpose and yet is there anything wrong with a man wearing a bra? If men wear ties that serve no purpose, why not bras? By the way I have tried wearing a bra and bras are very comfortable.

Keeping an open mind in a society with so many closed rules is difficult and I do not fault anyone for their misconceptions. I face my own misconceptions every day. What I ask is that everyone use critical thinking as I was taught during my Masters program. Critical thinking involves examining everything from multiple angles. Look at the issue first as you normally would, but do not stop there. Look at the same issue from another point of view.

A great example is a man in a skirt. I look at the issue from the perspective of wanting to wear a comfortable piece of clothing, but it appears to be only for women. I then look at the history of skirts and discover that they were first worn by men. I then look at the history of women and discover that they used to wear only skirts and dresses, but now they wear pants. I then see that men could make a change just like women and open up a new and yet old garment in their wardrobe by adding skirts and dresses.

How Can I Get Involved?

You can be involved in the movement for men's fashion freedom!!!! All you have to do is express your fashion style(s). Show off your fashion sense with pride and confidence and you will be a full supporter of the movement.

When you discuss fashion with others, explain to them the importance of allowing all people to express their fashion sense in their own way. Remind people that fashion is does not follow rules and that all people deserve equal fashion rights.

That will provide great support to the movement. If you want to get more involved, you can also write to clothing designers and manufacturers about designing skirts, dresses, heels, hose and more for men. You can even start purchasing great products made for men now.

Men's Fashion Freedom

Fashion freedom for men is here. Men are exercising the freedom to polish their fingernails, wear skirts, heels, hose and more. This is the Men's Fashion Freedom Movement!!!

The men in skirts movement gathered at the Guggenhiem Museum on February 7th and 8th, 2004 to march to the Metropolitan Museum of Art in support of the movement and the Bravehearts: Men in Skirts exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

Men's fashion freedom is happening as you read this text. Men are starting to enjoy fashion as they did for thousands of years. It has only been a recent development in the world that men have not been totally free in self-expression through fashion.

This is changing, as today there are many men who wear skirts, polish their nails, have long hair, wear earrings and even wear stockings and high heels. Men have done all of these things through the course of history, but during the last four hundred years, men's fashion has continually declined. The changing societal norms will allow men to be free to express themselves freely.

The men's fashion freedom movement is working to enable all men to feel confident in showing their fashion styles. The movement is striving toward full fashion freedom for men. For the movement to be successful, all men will need to exercise their own version of fashion freedom and support the men around them in their fashion choices.

I am a skirt and pantyhose wearing man. I also polish my toenails and long fingernails with clear polish. I wear ankle bracelets and I carry a bag with a shoulder strap. I exercise my fashion freedom everyday, do you?

END OF QUOTE.

What do you all think? I think I will keep a copy with me for those idiots out there with a problem with my clothing.

[miniskirt07]

that sound great as Ive read it all of it... men should have all the rights to wear anything included,skirt,dress,tights,etc.. tights with skirt and boots make me very comfortable also I looked at the mirror as my legs look much sexy - seem it much normal clothes to wear - I do shave my leg as well. I have lots of mini skirts, mini Dress, Sweater,etc.. also calf and knee-high boots. Remember it your body and dont let anyone tell you what to wear, it up to you to buy and wear and it yer money to spend.

[Milfmog]

I think I will keep a copy with me for those idiots out there with a problem with my clothing.

I don't think I'd bother, idiots rarely read anything that long or change their (tiny) minds.

Nothing really wrong with what the article says, but it's far too long. Ultimately all it says is "If I want to wear it, why shouldn't I?" and (so long as basic standards of decency are maintained) that seems a fairly reasonable stance.

Have fun,


Ian.

[crfriend]

What do you all think? I think I will keep a copy with me for those idiots out there with a problem with my clothing.

It was an interesting read, and was well presented. That said, the author is pushing for outright "fashion equality" which may be more than most folks are willing to deal with at the moment -- perhaps in a few years' time, but probably not right now. In principle, I agree with him, but he "goes a bit farther" than I'd be willing to go -- and that's OK -- we're all individuals.

I agree with Ian -- a detractor is not going to take the time to read something; their mind is already made up and isn't likely to change. Unfortunately, the world is full of unthinking automatons.

By the by, that was a very long quote. It's usually considered poor form to completely copy such an article from one forum to another, unless the article is either in the public domain or has verbiage in the copyright that copying is expressly permitted. A link, and a short excerpt, is enough.

[Pythos]

The reason I posted the whole thing is because I lost the original link. I copied this for my own files hours before, then got the whim to see what other's thought. The link in the quote did not work for me again, so I posted the whole thing.

I found the historical references interesting, which was one of the main reasons I posted this.

Also, I am for total fashion equality. Women have it, so why can't we.

This country (world) is never ready for a change, it is usually snuck in, or forced in. We humans are just stupid that way.

[Uncle Al]

What do you all think? I think I will keep a copy with me for those idiots
out there with a problem with my clothing.

It was an interesting read, and was well presented. That said, the author
is pushing for outright "fashion equality" which may be more than most
folks are willing to deal with at the moment -- perhaps in a few years' time,
but probably not right now.
<snip>
Unfortunately, the world is full of unthinking automatons.

By the by, that was a very long quote. It's usually considered
poor form to completely copy such an article from one forum to another,
unless the article is either in the public domain or has verbiage in the copyright
that copying is expressly permitted. A link, and a short excerpt, is enough.

Carl----
This is an updated article, similar to the Jay Dezlic article in another post.
I agree with you---waaay to long. Also, the writer did not proof-read the article.
I did see several grammar errors, a couple of spelling errors but the main error is the
way the writer repeated himself over and over again. How many ways can a
person say the same thing?
I also feel that this writer went to far in the depth of details about what he has worn.
will overload the majority of people, and 'they will turn off the sound'. If I choose
to wear 'undies' of a particular brand or style, thats for me to decide.
What I wear 'under' my clothes is really nobodies business but my own.

'All-in-all' this is a good article and should be given to the fashion editors
of our local papers. I just hope that they will not consider the writer a babbling idiot.

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

PS- 'Proofing' this post, trying to get the colors where I wanted them to be,
was very time consuming. From start to finnish--1 hour, 15 min.
Will the 'new' software allow composing in the desired color or must we continue
going back and forth with manual commands?
End of

[Bri]

I think it's because of procrastination and the idea that "my neighbor will do it so I don't have to". Most people if they had the choice would only buy insurance when they need it and not before that.

Again, why are universities so popular? So people who are scared of the future and have little plans other than doing what the majority want, will get educated to work for someone else and "do as they're told". Very few are very successful and do it on their own without any sort of boss. The people that do things their way, on their own are the ones who are admired, but most people are too scared to follow the leaders, they just follow the followers, and 10yrs. down ask the question, what just happened or where did my life go?

[crfriend]

This is an updated article, similar to the Jay Dezlic article in another post.
I agree with you---waaay to long.

In digging around, I found the original, but it's spread over several different pages; that will account for the seeming repetition. Repetition can be useful, especially so in oratory, but can very easily be overdone in the written language, and I agree with your assertion on the matter. Ian summed it up best -- and in one sentence, too.

Also, the writer did not proof-read the article.

We're beating a dead horse here; I think the notion of proofreading and quality of presentation are pretty close to a dead issue on the "'Net".

will overload the majority of people, and 'they will turn off the sound'. If I choose
to wear 'undies' of a particular brand or style, thats for me to decide.
What I wear 'under' my clothes is really nobodies business but my own.

That's why, by policy, SkirtCafe tends to frown on discussion of underwear -- it's just "too much information" -- so, unless a garment is meant to be "on display" it's only tangentially relevent here. Legwear, which is intended for show, is somewhat of a borderline case in this regard. For instance, discussion of it in the context of what's poking out from below the hem is fine; repeated discussion of what's worn under is generally not.

PS- 'Proofing' this post, trying to get the colors where I wanted them to be,
was very time consuming. From start to finnish --1 hour, 15 min.
Will the 'new' software allow composing in the desired color or must we continue
going back and forth with manual commands?

How did the Finns feel about that?

I actually find the new colours, and the editor, much easier to use than the old. This version properly positions the cursor for you so all you have to do is hit the colour you want from the palette and start typing. when you're done with that color, jump to the end of the line (or just past the "/color" BBCode tag) and start in again. Nesting them is a pain in the backside (as I just found out) as it seems that the "/color" tag reverts to "black" instead of the previous colour.

[Uncle Al]

PS- 'Proofing' this post, trying to get the colors where I wanted them to be,
was very time consuming. From start to finnish --1 hour, 15 min.
Will the 'new' software allow composing in the desired color or must we continue
going back and forth with manual commands?

How did the Finns feel about that?

I actually find the new colours, and the editor, much easier to use than the old. This version properly positions the cursor for you so all you have to do is hit the colour you want from the palette and start typing. when you're done with that color, jump to the end of the line (or just past the "/color" BBCode tag) and start in again. Nesting them is a pain in the backside (as I just found out) as it seems that the "/color" tag reverts to "black" instead of the previous colour.

I agree that the editor is much better.

Thank You for understanding the pain I've encountered in my "backside"

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

[Pythos]

Uncle al.

I have re-read the post I made and see no where in it anything about underwear, aside from bras, and pantyhose. I also saw only one example of what the author wore, and that was to show how attitude can influence how you feel wearing freestyle fashion.

I think I stated I disagreed with the bra thing, but I found the article overall to be a fair description of what we here and at other forums would like. And pantyhose are a fuzzy area since they are underwear, and yet are fully visible under a skirt.

But your statement about underwear baffles me.

Also, to all, I don't really like the changing color text. It kinda detracts from the subject.

[Uncle Al]

Uncle al.

I have re-read the post I made and see no where in it anything about underwear,
aside from bras, and pantyhose. I also saw only one example of what the author
wore, and that was to show how attitude can influence how you feel wearing freestyle fashion.

I think I stated I disagreed with the bra thing, but I found the article overall to be a
fair description of what we here and at other forums would like. And pantyhose
are a fuzzy area since they are underwear, and yet are fully visible under a skirt.

But your statement about underwear baffles me.

Also, to all, I don't really like the changing color text. It kinda detracts from the subject.

Pythos,

When I said 'undies' I was trying to use a generic term. Granted, pantyhose will fit into
either catagory, but your, and cr's, point is well taken. What stirred up my
was the writers suggestion about wearing a Bra. Unless it is medically necessary for a man
to wear a bra, why must that item be part of Mens Fashion?

As for the color change of the font, I'm glad to see that I can write in Blue. I've had to
look at computer screens for more than 30 years, and the ability to change the color of
the font has helped to save my vision. Even with the white background on this page, I have
to look away quite often. Otherwise, I get 'burn-in' in my eyes and all I see is white.

I'm not condemming the article you posted. I think it is a great article. Once I found
that it was posted over several issues of the paper or magazine, I understand why it
appears to be repetitious. My contention is we need to get men aware that skirts & kilts
are better for men than tr****r's, especially for men's health. The article should help
direct 'western society' that the Macho image is no longer required. All muscle without
brains is like 'turning a bull loose in the china shop'. Men have brains, but they need
to be reminded that the 'Donald Trump Look' is not for everyone. They need to
think for themselves and not turn into 'sheeple'.

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

[Since1982]

The article should help
direct 'western society' that the Macho image is no longer required.

I see no reason why the "western society" can't accept a skirt as part of a "new different Macho" image. No masculine man needs to feel feminine or look like a woman to wear a skirt. I certainly don't feel or look in any way feminine wearing a skirt.

[Bri]

I would just say now that the article is very repetitious. I also like the idea from Uncle Al that we need or it needs to include an idea that explains it's fair to not want a certain look, you don't need to look like Trump to be successful in life, nor do you need to show how strong you are all the time. Having brawn without brains is like a car with no wheels. You need control or focus of power to go in a direction.

[crfriend]

I would just say now that the article is very repetitious.

Really, to be fair, the original was carved up into different pages; what was presented here was a concatenation of all of them in one go. When read in its original form, it does not seem so repetitious.

I also like the idea from Uncle Al that we need or it needs to include an idea that explains it's fair to not want a certain look, you don't need to look like Trump to be successful in life, nor do you need to show how strong you are all the time.

This dovetails nicely with the notion that whether we wear skirted garments or trousers should be a matter of choice, because with choice we can better express who we are. By far, the most liberating feeling I've gotten from wearing skirts is that I have the choice to either wear them or not, and that I can actually do so to fit whatever my whim might be. That's incredibly empowering. Whilst I personally reject the "Donald Trump look" (and that ghastly rug he wears atop his head) as indicative of "success", I occasionally don a suit when the need (or perceived need) arises -- and because I have the choice to do so, I do so without resentment.

Put bluntly, there are times where situations will dictate what you wear; that's life, and understand that that's better than the alternative. But, for the most part, we are free to choose what we wear. Complete "fashion freedom" may be constrained depending on your individual locale, but for the most part, folks just don't care what you wear so long as you meet the letter of the assorted decency laws.

Having brawn without brains is like a car with no wheels. You need control or focus of power to go in a direction.

Perhaps a better analogy might be of a Lamborghini without a driver. That's a very macho statement of a car, but on its own it's little more than a collection of steel, plastic, and rubber -- it can't think, it can't feel, and it has no independent control over its destiny. We, on the other hand, do, and it has precisely nothing to do with the stereotype of machismo -- it has to do with the expression of free will and the power to choose our paths through life.

Choose wisely!

[Bri]

I was having trouble coming up with a good analogy at the time and typed that because in my mind at the time, with what little rest or whatever I had, it made the most sense. The Lamborghini one is much, much better. I think the machismo thing comes from the Alpha Male syndrome to compete and win the female. It's just funny that after they've won their female (most men) still do the machismo thing, as in if they don't live their lives by a certain very strict code of their idea of manliness. They're nolonger men. That just makes me laugh, having to prove yourself constantly. If I woke up one day and didn't have anything between the legs, I don't think I would go jump off a tall building, but learn to live with it and not think I was any less of a man, unless of course I had all the female parts and then it would be a way different story.