A gentle push of the envelope -- at work

[stefan]

Hi,

Thats good for you. You should keep it up at work I think. Atleast once in a while. Like women do, sometimes they wear trousers and sometimes skirts.
I have not yet built up the courage to wear skirts with friends or at work. In other occasions I have no problems wearing a skirt.

Keep it up.

/Stefan

[Since1982]

I wonder why it is that nobody gripes when a woman makes the fashion mistake of getting into the wrong lighting situation and a skirt "goes sheer". I suppose that I should accept that the incongruity of seeing the effect on a man can cause "problems

Why nobody gripes is a simple answer to...would you gripe at a woman in a Bikini swimsuit? Since a woman doesn't HAVE "OUR" plumbing and all one would be able to see through the skirt would be the same thing one sees when a woman wears a bikini, "LEGS" I can fully understand why people would complain about seeing thru a man's skirt and seeing male plumbing and not complain about seeing thru a woman's skirt and seeing the same amount of legs as is seen in a skimpy swimsuit.

[crfriend]

I can fully understand why people would complain about seeing thru a man's skirt and seeing male plumbing and not complain about seeing thru a woman's skirt and seeing the same amount of legs as is seen in a skimpy swimsuit.

For the record, I was not "commando" at the time, nor would my personal sensibilities allow me out the door so (un)attired. Even with a powerful backlight, all that would have been visible would have been my 2 legs.

To amplify the above thoughts a little bit, I find it more than mildly disturbing that the first thought that an onlooker might have when confronted by a bloke in a skirt is the notion that he's "letting it all hang out". If it's not on public display, it was not intended to be, and the only possible comeback to such a notion is "Get your mind out of the gutter." To my mind, this smacks of double-standard -- and it's decidedly uncomfortable getting subjected to it. My complaint on the matter revolves around the idea that I know that the fact ("truth" be damned) of the matter is that nothing untoward could have been visible. Of course, I'm also living in a culture that is trying its hardest to "de-celebrate" the human form -- especially the male form (and the very feminine "curvy" form).

[Since1982]

I was only thinking that because so many KILTED Scots DO go commando and I THINK it might even be against rules in Scottish brigades in the Military to wear underpants. knowing this, many people might think (erroneously) that ANY man in a MUG is ALSO commando. But I bow to your superior knowledge on that subject and recant my statement.

[crfriend]

[...] I bow to your superior knowledge on that subject and recant my statement.

I call "BS" on the "superior knowledge" comment.

I quite handily understand that the garments I wear are not constructed from double-digit yard-lengths of small-arms-resistant wool; the rigs I have are lightweight and I was wearing lightweight skirts for a reason -- it was bloomin' hot! So, fully cognisant that a visible "third leg" would quite likely offend onlookers I choose to sport underwear (that, and I don't particularly like "letting it all hang out"). My complaint was based on the supposition of an observer that I must be "commando", hence something must have been visible. That was what I found offensive.

[nicothoe]

It's a big step you were able to make, and one that I doubt I'd be able to do - at least in my current job. I work at an oil refinery, a male dominated environment. Who knows, perhaps one day I may surprise myself!!

I think our biggest problem we face, is not so much how other people will react, but how we think they will react. Simply going to a store and looking through the women's department for clothing is enough to send some men into a panic. "What if somebody I know sees me? What if people think I wear frilly lace panties?" Is doesn't matter that you are actually buying clothes for your wife or daughter - you are afraid of what they think. If you are looking for skirts for yourself, or for than matter, frilly lace underwear, then that only exasperates the paranoia that other shoppers are whispering about you. "Look Judy, it's that creepy guy again!"

In most cases the reality is different. People aren't always looking at you, talking about you. They actually care less about you than you think. When they do look at you in puzzlement, they are still unlikely to approach you. It's one think to stare, another to confront.

And sometimes they surprise you by showing you their support.

[crfriend]

It's a big step you were able to make, and one that I doubt I'd be able to do - at least in my current job. I work at an oil refinery, a male dominated environment. Who knows, perhaps one day I may surprise myself!!

From a very practical perspective, it depends on what sort of job you have. I work with computers, so much of my time is spent "flying a desk" with some light labour required, mostly in the line of swapping hardware or occasionally pulling cables, so I can usually get away with wearing a skirt. However, if you work in a hazardous area, or have other "issues" (grilled catwalks come to mind at refineries) to worry about, then skirts at work are a no-go for entirely practical reasons.

I think our biggest problem we face, is not so much how other people will react, but how we think they will react.

That's a useful observation, and one worth bearing in mind.

[...] People aren't always looking at you, talking about you. They actually care less about you than you think. When they do look at you in puzzlement, they are still unlikely to approach you. It's one think to stare, another to confront.

And sometimes they surprise you by showing you their support.

That's been my experience. There were the misguided complaints to HR at work, and I have gotten snickered at, but if anybody has bothered to say anything, or to ask why I'm wearing a skirt, the outcome has invariably been positive.

[Milfmog]

There were the misguided complaints to HR at work, and I have gotten snickered at, but if anybody has bothered to say anything, or to ask why I'm wearing a skirt, the outcome has invariably been positive.

The complaints to HR were non-fatal, since you got the "It's not the skirt" comment, and I have found that the easy way to deal with being laughed at is to take it on the chin and enjoy bringing a little extra happiness into someone else's day . Now I really don't care if folks want to laugh at me, if they are out of earshot I won't know and if I hear them then I just smile and feel good about myself.

Like you I have found that every time I am approached and asked about the skirt the outcome is positive. Actually that's not quite true, once or twice I've had a response of "Rather you than me" but that's hardly likely to cause me to burst into tears...

I have recently started a new job and am still deciding when to wear a kilt on a Friday (officially "dress down day" although the general dress code is casual everyday). I think I shall wait until I can get the job converted from a three month fixed contract to full employment but I reckon it is definately a case of when to wear a kilt not whether to. Watch this space.

Have fun,


Ian.

[Ash]

Hi all,
A female colleague and I had a laugh this morning when we walked into the office: same colour scheme. Orange t-shirt, black legwear. The only difference being she was in trousers, I was in a black, ankle-length skirt. And I had knee-high boots with a two-inch heel on as well (autumn has come upon us early, it seems), she's in flat pumps.
This tends to happen quite a lot.

Another colleague and I are of a similar height (around 6'), and have similar tastes in long skirts, mostly denim, and she and I often let each other know if the other has seen something nice in town. It's not uncommon for both of us to turn up in the same grey denim skirt, and unheard of for both of us to be wearing the same colour tops. Not that it's always denim, but it's practical and hard-wearing, and suits most weather conditions. I've got a range of dark green, ivory, blue, grey and black cotton and linen skirts of almost every conceivable length. Most of them get worn to work at some point during the year. I'm not keen on patterns or multi-colours, though, and I loathe viscose.

And no one raises an eyebrow.

When I first came openly into work in May of last year, in a black cotton knee length skirt during the week (I'd been coming in skirted at weekends for several years), I was summoned to the manager's office. I got the feeling she felt a little awkward, but apparently it had been noted I was wearing a skirt (no, really?), and she wanted me to know I had the full support of the University and of the Library in doing so. So full steam ahead since then. Now, come the morning, I decide what to wear for the day, knowing I can choose from my entire wardrobe, and not have to limit myself to bifurcated legwear. I know I'm really lucky, working where I do, being able to do this with such freedom. The sense of liberation has never dulled.

I often get complementary comments from students and other library users. In the thousands who have seen me, no one has ever made an unkind comment or questioned me. What may have gone on when my back is turned is beside the point; people can think what they like, say what they like.

This is the place: http://www.le.ac.uk/library/
Sadly, I don't feature on any of the pictures. I'll try to get some pictures organised of me at work, but I don't have a digital camera, and I'm not sure of the technological side of things, so I'll need to get someone to help. Hopefully, not to long, now.

Gotta go, quitting time.
Best wishes,
Ash

[crfriend]

Well, it's no longer the dog days of Summer here in southern New England, and the temperatures are starting to cool off a wee bit. Normal highs for this time of year are in the mid 60s (F, obviously) and the lows in the 50s or upper 40s, so I'm not wearing skirts at work because I'm worried that they'll turn the A/C off.

However, I have not stopped wearing skirts to work. I wore one once last week, and I wore one today. I forget what I did last week, but today's was the same rig (laundered, of course) that I wore for the walk on the local "rail-trail" on last Saturday. There was no commentary whatsoever. Sapphire, upon seeing me when I got home, inquired if I'd worn the skirt to work, and seemed happy when I answered in the affirmative. I've also been wearing my hair down for the past couple of days, and that has generated comments -- but nothing negative.

I'm really tempted to just keep it up at a low volume so everybody just gradually gets used to the notion. I've had no more overt complaints as (1) I wear opaque slips to obviate the "backlight problem" and (2) the skirts I'm wearing now are heavier anyway because the temperatures are cooler (I shovel snow in a skirt and heavy tights, and it's actually quite comfortable so long as one stays dry). My immediate boss doesn't care, nor does his. I rather like this.

[Bob]

It's great to see how your job went from hell to likeable with bonus, in just a few short months.

[crfriend]

Thanks for that, Bob.

Things are pretty good now at work following a managerial shakeup. My new boss is nothing like my old one; this guy states what needs doing (if I don't notice it first and mention it to him) and lets his technicians figure out the design and implementation -- and he lets them actually finish what they set out to do, unlike the last one who nano-managed to the point where nothing was actually getting done. I've actually heard him state that, "It's best to leave things up to the technicians; trying to second-guess them usually comes up wrong." That's a paraphrase, but was extremely encouraging

The comment of "It's not the skirt" following the gripe from HR about my attire was telling, too.

What a difference a few months make. In January I was certain I was on my way out, I positively hated getting up and going into work in the morning, and I was turning into a stark raving paranoid. Today, I am very comfortable in my position, am getting things done that desperately needed doing, and am once again trusted to make good technical decisions for the Company in the computing realm. One word: "Win". The fact that it's now proven that I can wear skirts to work is, a Bob points up, a bonus.

I think the ultimate "take-away" for those reading is that competent and trusting managers are a "good thing", and that if the place you work at is filled with intelligent creative people, you are quite likely going to be able to wear your skirts to work if you so desire. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" is the usual cliche that gets invoked at times like these, but in this case, it's really true.

Now if only I can get this mess with my car sorted out....

[wichor]

When I first came openly into work in May of last year, in a black cotton knee length skirt during the week (I'd been coming in skirted at weekends for several years), I was summoned to the manager's office. I got the feeling she felt a little awkward, but apparently it had been noted I was wearing a skirt (no, really?), and she wanted me to know I had the full support of the University and of the Library in doing so. So full steam ahead since then.

You work at a university library too? me too. do not dare to come here with a skirt yet. but maybe, when my one year fixed contract is replaced by full contract i will.

what do you do at the library? i'm a web 2.0 innovation specialist. mix between doing literature research myself, and helping researchers and docters (it's a university hospital) do it themselves.