On age, risk, and skirt wearing

[Mipi]

What I'm concerned a bit when we come to year of birth, we can see that great majority of our members can't be regarded as a youngsters, at least. Is this showing that younger generations are not interested in skirts (on men)? Just to busy to talk about it? Or is it that we "not so young anymore" are not so much afraid that someone will ask us, how much of men are we???

[Colin]

Older men are probably more confident and have often proved their worth in their job, brought up a family, etc., so they don't need to "toe an imaginary line" as younger men do.

[crfriend]

Colin's comment -- and thank you for that, sir -- I think pretty well hits the nail on the head. This is not to say that there aren't younger guys who "rock the look", but rather that there may be a perception of added risk in doing so that the "middle-agers" (and up) don't have -- and it's that perception that likely puts lots of younger guys off the notion of challenging the prevailing rule that men only wear trousers.

Risk is something that can be managed, but it can on occasion be really terrifying. It's the fear that clouds one's vision, not the risk. At the worst-case end of things, it's not impossible to imagine a promising career in {whatever} to come to an abrupt and sudden halt because of one's "fashion sense"; however, one must ask, "How likely is this to happen in reality?" At the other end of the scale, it's also not impossible for the same "fashion sense" to result in promotion and advancement, although I'll posit that it's not particularly likely. Generally speaking, that's why the current wisdom seems to point up, "Don't wear your skirts to work." It would create needless distraction from the very real demands of getting one's self firmly entrenched in one's career.

Now, how risky is expressing one's alternative "fashion sense" in a non-work setting? Can this risk be managed? Some of it, of course, depends on one's employer and how invasive that entity's view of employees is; if you have a career that subjects you to intense scrutiny both on and off the job then it might be very risky. If not, however, I suspect that most employers would not particularly care unless they felt it'd drive away customers, either current or potential.

Certainly putting distance between yourself and your workplace is one "coping strategy" that's often brought up. It addresses the risk well enough, but I think that it assuages the fear more than anything else. If the fear can be decoupled from the risk then one can rationally asses the reality -- and this may be another "advantage point" to the older guys; they have more practise at it, but this is not to say that the tactic of proper risk management can't be exercised by the younger guys. The key is to not be afraid of the consequences: mindful, yes, but not afraid. Ultimately, all going to a far-off mall to "practise" is going to do is up your transportation cost.

In short, unless you live your life under intense scrutiny, what one does off-hours is one's own business and most employers won't care. Wives and girlfriends are another matter altogether, but I think I'll leave that subject for another time -- and that's one where distance won't help one bit.

[Sarongman]

Yes, we are in the main, an older age group here in this on line community. (I am only a 3 months short of 61) Frankly, I cannot see us as the main vanguard of skirting for men. As Carl pointed out, those in work have to toe the line as regards a traditional dress code, especially if they are to advance in their career.
Remembering that you tube video of skateboarding skirted teens somewhere in Europe, I am hoping for a critical mass of teens to tip the balance and then, like trousered women, it will become the norm and unchallenged. The conservatives who dare to speak derisively will, like Benjamin Disraeli, when he scorned Darwin in November 1864, be laughed off the stage.

[crfriend]

As Carl pointed out, those in work have to toe the line as regards a traditional dress code, especially if they are to advance in their career.

What I was driving at was not the point that men at work "have to toe the line", but rather that the risk to one's advancement can be first ascertained and then managed -- and one can still wear skirts in certain low-risk settings. My comment was not intended to be binary in the least, but rather to point up the very wide "grey area" that can be actively exploited if done reasonably and responsibly -- and that it's primarily fear of repercussions rather than any reality that likely put many off the idea of experimenting.

For instance, at work, peers -- at least those you get along with -- are likely not going to be a problem unless they have hangups of their own; bosses and superiors -- especially those one does not get on with well -- are much more likely to throw a wrench into the career-building exercise. I don't typically "hang out" at places that would be frequented by my superiors (even if we lived in the same area -- note that), so I can feel quite "safe" in those areas. I live in the same general area as several of my peers, however, but these are guys I get along with well, and most of whom know of my alternate sartorial sense, so I have no real concerns there, either.

Note that my bosses know I wear skirts, mainly because I've worn one to work at least twice (on weekends) and on one of those had to interact with the Director of IT ("information Technology", nee MIS ("Management Information Systems", but there's something useful in there) for our European operation. There have been no long-term ill-effects that I can spot, so it may well be a complete non-issue. I suspect that even though they know it doesn't matter because I perform well at my job and can be counted on when things really go wrong (even if I do show up in a skirt on a Saturday afternoon).

My biggest point is "Do not be afraid." Be aware, certainly, but do not be scared of phantoms that may never materalise. Understand the situation and how it may affect things, and go from there with understanding and confidence in yourself. An outward expression of confidence -- especially non-verbal -- alone is usually enough to dissuade the nay-sayers; expressing timidity or fear is bad in this situation. As is oft said, "Dogs can smell fear." this adage is worth remembering in this (somewhat odd) context. Note that confidence doesn't imply swagger (unless that's part of your natural makeup)" confidence implies the understanding that you are who you are, that you are hurting precisely no-one, and that you have the inalienable right to be yourself so long as you don't impinge on others.

[sapphire]

There is an adage that says something like this: "Dress for the position that you want, not the one you have". I will not argue whether that adage is fair, should be , etc. only that it appears to be in place in many organizations. It applies to women as well (and yes, I do acknowledge that at this time, we have more options than men -but that isn't the point)

As Carl noted, there are decisions to be made and those decisions may affect the careers of both men and women. While we may feel that this isn't fair, it does exist. A person who comes to work in flip flops and pyjamas is quite probably less likely to get promoted than one who dresses according to the managerial mainstream.

This is something to keep in mind. Corporate culture can be stultifying.

[Skirt Chaser]

While we do get guys taking half a lifetime to realize they have to live for themselves it may be younger men don't need as much support to wear their skirts. I take it as a good sign that we do not have a large number of participants in early adulthood.

[AMM]

I don't think the participants in this forum are all that representative of men who wear skirts or kilts.

I am acquainted with a number of men who wear kilts and skirts from time to time. Most of them do so only part-time or occasionally. It's also not such a big deal for them. I don't think any of them think that it's the sort of thing that is worth spending a lot of time on-line discussing, any more than they spend a lot of time discussing the ins and outs of wearing shorts or running shoes. After all, once you've found some styles you like, and situations where you feel comfortable wearing them, what's to discuss?

I also think that SkirtCafe is a community that is, to put it politely, not for everyone, and not even for every skirt-wearer. As a community, we tend to be touchy, crotchety, and not terribly receptive to things we haven't already thought of. This is not a good way to attract younger people.

[crfriend]

I also think that SkirtCafe is a community that is, to put it politely, not for everyone, and not even for every skirt-wearer. As a community, we tend to be touchy, crotchety, and not terribly receptive to things we haven't already thought of. This is not a good way to attract younger people.

Ouch. That observation calls for a bit of introspection; are we really that way? If so, I'd posit that we need to take stock of what we're about, and behave accordingly (this author included). If "fresh blood" cannot be attracted then we're on the same path as the dinosaurs (do we really want to become birds?)!

[Since1982]

I agree completely with what Colin said. Personally, at this advanced point in my life(67), I don't care a flying FFFFFFootball what other people think about what I do or don't wear. My only response to negative comments, which are very rare, is "Because I can"..or if asked if what I'm wearing is a skirt, I look baffled and look down with a confused look and say something like: "Oh, let me look, well, I guess it is one. Whaddayaknowaboothat! Thanks for pointing that out". He thinks I'm a confused old guy and wanders away sure in his knowledge that he "helped" me. heheheheehehehehe as I give him a furtive look and cackle like an old warlock.

[Brandy]

I don't think the participants in this forum are all that representative of men who wear skirts or kilts.

I am acquainted with a number of men who wear kilts and skirts from time to time. Most of them do so only part-time or occasionally. It's also not such a big deal for them. I don't think any of them think that it's the sort of thing that is worth spending a lot of time on-line discussing, any more than they spend a lot of time discussing the ins and outs of wearing shorts or running shoes. After all, once you've found some styles you like, and situations where you feel comfortable wearing them, what's to discuss?

I also think that SkirtCafe is a community that is, to put it politely, not for everyone, and not even for every skirt-wearer. As a community, we tend to be touchy, crotchety, and not terribly receptive to things we haven't already thought of. This is not a good way to attract younger people.

Here is an example of a long running thread of men wearing skirts that probably do not know skirtcafe exists. There was a survey thread on this site which ask how do you see yourself. Most replyed straight-8.

http://www.hhplace.org/guys/3267-guys_skirts_heels.html

[Sarongman]

Brandy, if they thought of themselves as straight-8, were they old Packards or Buicks. I suppose if they doubled in weight they could become V16s like the early 30s Cadillac.

[AMM]

... the same path as the dinosaurs (do we really want to become birds?)!

"Do we ... want to become birds?"

Now, that is an excellent question!

Not to get all new-agey, but: are we afraid to fly?

[sapphire]

"Fear of Flying"???? So 1970s