Surveys and opinions

[Gus]

Looking at the various surveys on the web one starts to get an impression of three things:
On surveys, men seem to accept the idea of men in skirts more than women
Anecdotal evidence, e.g. from the posts on the Cafe, actually seem to suggest that women have less of an issue, if any (which contradicts the above)
Women, (who have a choice in the matter) actually prefer pants

Have look at this one: http://www.funadvice.com/q/what_women_l ... most_jeans

Ok, I admit that this is a stupid survey and only had 11 respondents of whom one was a male. But let's discount him and look at the ten women/girls who responded. Only one - that's a mere 10% - actually prefers skirts to jeans. A full 80% say jeans every time.

So by my reckoning we as men are cross-dressing when we wear tr****rs.

I've lost the URLs to the numerous other surveys but I think maybe the demographics of the respondents might be biased - they are usually conducted on sites which attract specific interest groups. And some of the sites really do illustrate the overall dumbing-down of human intelligence so prevalent on the web.

What I am really getting to is does anyone know if any serious surveys have been conducted and have they been conducted using a true random sample across a genuinely representative demographic? Any thoughts on the matter?

It just makes me angry that normal western society dictates that I have to stick to the "rules" and that skirts are a woman's prerogative when it seems most women don't even like to wear them

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now!

[r1g0r]

unfortunately, stu, all surveys out there currently are produced by somebody with an agenda. their own particular "axe to grind", so to speak.

i suspect a survey produced by any member of one of "our" boards would be similarly prejudiced. nature of the beast.

in order to get an unbiased survey done, one would have to find an outside party to conduct the survey. the outside group would need to have a reason to want to conduct the survey (good cause, time, money, and a venue to publish the results) that would be important for their motivation.

most likely, easier said than done because these folks usually have other issues to study that may take precedence over a buncha guys in skirts

a good possibility might be high school or college students pursuing a psych course.

[Gus]

a good possibility might be high school or college students pursuing a psych course.

Now that's a good idea.

[mugman]

That would appear to be a sensible possibility. I believe that those with younger blood have not been around long enough yet to commit themselves totally to one or other of the 'ways of the world', except maybe on the stronger political and global changing issues. They are more likely to be largely unbiased so won't look to be prompting 'fixed' results, and possibly interested in the idea of firming up on the more intriguing nature of skirting that's unconnected with crossdressimg, as a legitimate exercise. Maybe there is some mileage in it.

[AMM]

OK, I'll bite. (It's more fun than what I have to do at work today....)

Looking at the various surveys on the web one starts to get an impression of three things:

The main impression I've gotten is that the opinions expressed on the web are heavily skewed towards those who
(a) don't have a life, so they have lots of time to web-surf and post and also
(b) don't think before posting, as the more time you spend thinking about what you're going to write, the less time you have to actually type, and the greater delay before your precious words are out there for all to see.

If you look at the posting times for a lot of comments in comment threads, you wonder how the people had time to even read what they're responding to, let alone consider what was written.

I've given up trying to comment most places, because by the time I've thought about the original article enough to say something intelligent, the "discussion" is dead and buried and the hordes have moved on to the next hot-button "issue."

It just makes me angry that normal western society dictates that I have to stick to the "rules" and that skirts are a woman's prerogative when it seems most women don't even like to wear them

"Society" is, in reality, just lots and lots of people, who say lots of different things. A lot of the "rules" can be ignored; you just have to figure out what the consequences will be.

For example, the consequence of ignoring the rule "don't rob banks" is likely to be a long enforced visit to a rather unpleasant place. On the other hand, ignoring the rule "don't wear white after Labor day" (=early September, i.e., the end of Summer) won't cost you anything more than perhaps a snide comment from your grandmother.

I'd say that a man wearing a skirt falls into the latter category.

Yes, there are a few people who might beat you up for it, if they think they can get away with it. But there are far more people who will steal your wallet (or your car) if they think they can get away with it.

Yes, some people will make negative comments. But in my experience, a man is more likely to get negative comments from strangers in the NYC subway if he wears a Boston Red Sox T-shirt than if he wears a skirt.

Some people will make positive comments. I'll assume that wolf whistles count as "positive comments."

And most people will be too busy with their lives to worry about what you wear. At least, once they've decided that you aren't planning to steal their wallet.

Mostly, you'll just feel conspicuous, and be conspicuous. People will turn their heads to make sure they really saw what they thought they saw. Teenagers hanging out on the corner will laugh, and you'll think they're laughing at you. And you'll feel like everyone is noticing you. Which they will be.


The bottom line is: it's up to you. Are you ... man enough ... to take it?


On another note:

I believe that those with younger blood have not been around long enough yet to commit themselves totally to one or other of the 'ways of the world',.... They are more likely to be ... possibly interested in the idea of .... skirting that's unconnected with crossdressing,

I have noticed some of this.

At my college reunion, it was mostly the men in their 20's who were shouting "great kilt" or "kilts rule" (and some were wearing kilt-like skirts or, in one case, a long skirt.) At Contra dances with a lot of younger people, you'll see a fair number of young men in skirts, more so than among the older men.

I'm not sure if this is a matter of age or a matter of changes in society. We in our 50's (or older) grew up when strict conformity was more highly prized -- and enforced -- among both boys and girls. I think there's a lot less enforcement of conformity for conformity's sake now than 50 years ago. Of course, there are as many bullies and tyrants running around as there ever were, so kids still generally dress to be inconspicuous, so as to avoid negative attention.

[crfriend]

OK, I'll bite. (It's more fun than what I have to do at work today....)

Welcome back, AMM. I've missed reading your cogent, well thought-out commentary.

The main impression I've gotten is that the opinions expressed on the web are heavily skewed towards those who
(a) don't have a life, so they have lots of time to web-surf and post and also
(b) don't think before posting, as the more time you spend thinking about what you're going to write, the less time you have to actually type, and the greater delay before your precious words are out there for all to see.

Another problem with on-line "polls" is that they're heavily self-selecting, and therefore are almost statistically meaningless because only those with an interest in the poll will bother to answer it; they tend to be very heavily one-sided. For instance, if I posted a "poll" here asking if men should wear skirts, I suspect the percentage of "Aye" answers would eclipse the "Nay" crowd; we don't have a valid cross-section.

Point "b" actually seems to work in "meat-space" as well. At least where I am, society is so frenetic that if you don't have an answer within a couple of seconds the person who asked is off to other things. This makes forming rational, well thought-out, decisions nigh-well impossible and things happen by rote with the players repeating everything move-for-move as they always have with no room or time for thought as to why they're doing so.

[...] A lot of the "rules" can be ignored; you just have to figure out what the consequences will be.

For example, the consequence of ignoring the rule "don't rob banks" is likely to be a long enforced visit to a rather unpleasant place. On the other hand, ignoring the rule "don't wear white after Labor day" (=early September, i.e., the end of Summer) won't cost you anything more than perhaps a snide comment from your grandmother.

I'd say that a man wearing a skirt falls into the latter category.

I like that way of putting it; not only does it point up that many things are more flexible than we expect, it also puts the various "rules" into context. In donning an "unconventional" garment (for "western civilisation") we are indeed "breaking" a few of the "rules", but our experiences here, in general, point up that those rules are amongst the "flexible ones" and if we can actually get people to think about the matter frequently any objection goes away. The trick is to get folks to expend the energy (and time) to properly engage their brains and do the thinking.

Yes, there are a few people who might beat you up for it, if they think they can get away with it. But there are far more people who will steal your wallet (or your car) if they think they can get away with it.

Again, well said, but the response has more to do with the "can get away with it" notion than anything else, and what one can "get away with" is frequently great. Witness the run-up to Enron or the current debacle where the US Treasury is getting set to bail out a pile of speculators and gamblers who made bad bets. In comparison to physical assault, simple muggings, or wholesale white-collar crime wearing a skirt doesn't even rank on the scale!

Mostly, you'll just feel conspicuous, and be conspicuous. People will turn their heads to make sure they really saw what they thought they saw. Teenagers hanging out on the corner will laugh, and you'll think they're laughing at you. And you'll feel like everyone is noticing you. Which they will be.


The bottom line is: it's up to you. Are you ... man enough ... to take it?

I like it! Well done.

Note, too, that Real Men (TM) have the ability to laugh off a whole lot of things and, as Ian put it, if you gave someone the ability to laugh -- even if *at* you -- then you've brightened their day. Pat yourself on the back and get on with things.

At my college reunion, it was mostly the men in their 20's who were shouting "great kilt" or "kilts rule" (and some were wearing kilt-like skirts or, in one case, a long skirt.) At Contra dances with a lot of younger people, you'll see a fair number of young men in skirts, more so than among the older men.

I'd call this a "Good Thing" (Sorry, Martha). Many youngsters, it seems, are less jaded than in the past, and many are nowhere near as cynical as the older set (and I'm inching my way into that category). Hopefully their optimism will carry forward and they'll be able to shuck off some of the more ridiculous baggage that we've been carrying for so long.

[Milfmog]

...as Ian put it, if you gave someone the ability to laugh -- even if *at* you -- then you've brightened their day. Pat yourself on the back and get on with things.

That's not quite how I put it, but I wish it was . I need to work on writing concisely like that; an excellent translation from my muddled scribblings, thank you Carl.

Many youngsters, it seems, are less jaded than in the past, and many are nowhere near as cynical as the older set (and I'm inching my way into that category).

Sadly, I'm not only inching into advancing age but work in quality assurance so I'm paid to be cynical. The saddest of being a cynic is how often events prove me right

Have fun,


Ian.

PS Great post Oscar, bang on the money.

[AMM]

I forgot to mention one negative consequence:

If you plan to run for public office, or join an exclusive country club, or something like that (and you're male), don't wear skirts, at least not in public.

Unless your last name is Giuliani

[Since1982]

If you plan to run for public office, or join an exclusive country club, or something like that (and you're male), don't wear skirts, at least not in public.

Unless your last name is Giuliani

PLEASE don't mix a pasty faced Mayoral crossdresser with what WE do.
If you are a male skirt wearer and DO run for office or join an exclusive country club, make sure your public office seat is secured and start letting the other golfers down slowly with a kilt, (a traditional Golf uniform) before showing up in a miniskirt.