Spreading the Word

[Gus]

In theory this is a great idea, especially if linked to a charitable cause, perhaps a charity for men's testicular or prostate cancers.
In practice, this would need a lot of advance publicity if large numbers of men were to be persuaded to take part and if employers were to be made to appreciate the significance of the event.

Brilliant! Does anybody on the forum know Lance Armstrong? A bit of celebrity backing could go a long way.

[Kris]

In theory this is a great idea, especially if linked to a charitable cause, perhaps a charity for men's testicular or prostate cancers.
In practice, this would need a lot of advance publicity if large numbers of men were to be persuaded to take part and if employers were to be made to appreciate the significance of the event.

I think it's more likely to gain sponsorship by large well-known charities if it's in support of a women's cause. They seem (at least in the USA) to have higher profiles and more fundraising activities.
If it's sponsored by large charities and in support of a women's cause, it's hard for employers to say no; they are afraid of being accused of sexism if they withhold support. A curious thought - a business being accused of sexism for not allowing men to wear skirts to work!

Another possibility would be a walk for charity. Men and women walking together in skirts for "fill in the charity".

And yes, anything like this would need a long lead time, probably a year or more to get sponsors and do the right publicity.

Kris

[Peter v]

Hallo Kris, I like tyour Idea of a walk. Only it would "have " to be "A walk" which takes place all over the US / world, if we are to get as many men in skirts to take part as possible.

[mugman]

I'm just thinking out loud here.
Thinking of the idea as an ongoing acceptance of skirts, how would it in fact work, after the 'day' has come and gone, and things go back to 'normality'?
If, however, it was a 'week', and companies could either pick a day in the week that's practical for it/them to get it over and done with (which might be their attitude), or more casual firms (the main target) could accommodate it any time during the week, then it might allow a bit more casualized skirted coming and going - setting more firmly the message that any day is OK for men in skirts. I don't know if that makes sense.
A walk at the end of the week (presumably on the weekend) could be the finale, obviously attracting those who enjoyed wearing a skirt during the week, plus those who aren't actually currently in employment. That covers everyone.

[Gregg1100]

Hi,
A good idea. This is what I did for Children In Need in 2005. The more that wear a skirt for the day, the more everyday people will see a skirted man, and maybe more acceptance will result.
Some of the men here who have not worn a skirt out in public will have a good time, as I did. So much more comfortable to drive in a skirt too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/ ... rtDay4.jpg

I don't work for the firm mentioned on the cab anymore.
Greg

[Gus]

Nice pic Gregg. Do you still drive in skirt?

I like everybody's ideas. However this would take a lot of organizing and I have no idea how these things are usually done. The idea of a walk is good.

However, to do something that is achievable, what about trying to gradually build up to that? How about just having a "wear a skirt to work" day and get people to sponsor one for it with all proceeds going to whatever charities. Gradually this could develop into fund raising walks etc.

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread email all ones friends who then in turn email their friends. I am not a great advocate of chain letters, but there are so many emails that get forwarded all over the place all the time that it would be good to get a worthwhile email doing the rounds. The email should also have a link to the home website for the skirt day. And then of course we need to get hold of charities all over the world that we will effectively be raising the money for.

But for all that effort, I still wonder if it will cause skirt wearing for men to catch on. I just think if you can get enough men wearing skirts at the same the time, they might start to get hooked on the idea. Maybe.

[Gus]

I see these ideas are not new and have been explored on other forums - see the Midas skirts4men forum: http://skirts4men.com/pages/index.aspx?id=37

Their ideas seemed to peter out rather quickly though - obviously they couldn't achieve "critical mass".

Anybody who has more ideas to add to this thread, please do. I will collate everything into one document and maybe create a survey so we can vote on next steps. I will let it run till the end of the month before I do this to give everybody some time to add their views. Let's not let this thing die due to lack of interest.

I just want to know that one day I will be able to show up to work every day wearing a skirt and not getting flak for it.

How about declaring Friday 27 March 2009 International Work in a Skirt Day? (The date is a pure thumb-suck )

[mugman]

In one respect it should be easier to get a message going because of the fast and immense international support of the internet.

As is usual with forums, there is a main core here of regular contributors, which I suspect is a mere fraction of the membership. Folk join, follow the latest topics for a while, lose interest and then only occasionally revisit, but always as 'outsiders'.

To get a 'skirt day' off the ground, I feel there has to be stronger support in the first place from centres of interest such as Skirtcafe. Looking at the skirts4men posts referred to about the 'epidemic' principle, the length of correspondence it went to was quite miserable. If this is to be an idea of some importance, don't let that happen. After all, we are ultimately hoping to help change the way most people view a man in a skirt - going completely against many generations of tradition. If men seriously want change then there must be a greater input of ideas, personal opinions, etc, from those who want it.

No-one yet (I believe) has said they think the idea is pointless, and for what reasons. Without knowing exactly what a lot more people think of a 'skirt day', it will remain just another topic which slips quietly back into the ether, once someone else starts a new thread on their latest skirt.

I've been a member now of this forum for a good few months, and the 'Spreading The Word - Skirt Day' topic - or whatever it evolves into - for me, has been the most positive 'let's move things on' initiative so far to come out of Skirtcafe.

I often post ideas which don't hold a lot of water, but I'm not bothered too much as I know that stupid ideas sometimes spark off better ones through someone else's head. This happens a lot in the creation of advertising campaigns, and a day's think-tanking around a boardroom table can be several hours of hopelessly weak ideas, which finally gel and explode into one award winning idea. So, a hundred heads are better than one!

Not all of us are thick skinned enough to just sport a skirt into town, or to work, without any concern about being slagged off, our sexuality being questioned, heckled, laughed at, called a pansy from across the street, and so on. And it isn't, as some insist, all just in the head. This is the real world, with real hecklers. Sadly there is now a sickness where a guy can be knifed simply for being an easy target.

I'm with Gus on the thought that I would one day like to enjoy my own choice of attire without harrassment and, basically, be as free from any of the flack as men who wear pants have generally always been.

A 'Skirt Day' has to be brilliantly stage managed. There's only one stab at it, because if it fails, no-one will be bothered again.

[Since1982]

As for employers not tolerating it - this could raise some interesting issues and may eventually cause a lot of employers to revise there ridiculous double standards dress codes.

I don't know how it is in S. Africa, but here in America, you may have to walk a year to find an employer that will do anything other than fire an employee that is harrassing him to change the office dress code. I've worked for employers all my life and been an employer part of my life and if it's MY money being lost if I lose ONE customer because he doesn't like how one of my employees looks, that employee is discontinued for cause. ie: FIRED! Any employee or group of employees pushing me to change office dress codes to suit them and are not in a union that supports their cause are right out in the cold, no matter how much tenure they have. In America, we support an employers rights to run his business in a profit making way. Dress codes are part of that. In Colorado, there is a bottled water business run by a Scot who has all his employees wearing kilts. They complained in the beginning preferring their suits etc. but got used to kilts as the owner was not changing his mind. His business, His money, His rules. In America, there are tons more people looking for jobs and will wear whatever they are told to wear than people arguing about dress codes.

[crfriend]

In America, there are tons more people looking for jobs and will wear whatever they are told to wear than people arguing about dress codes.

Yes, it is nice being the "alpha dog" in an economy that's in the toilet and sports a 20% unemployment rate (the real numbers are unknown; those that have fallen through the "safety-net" of unemployment compensation are not counted in the US); it gives one license I suppose. I hope the dogs choke on their golden parachutes on the way down when (IF) the correction comes.

[Colin]

I wore a (tartan) kilt to work yesterday and also one day a few weeks ago. It is particularly comfortable for my lunchtime walk through the main street which means that lots of people have seen the kilt.

My only reservation about the kilt, is that our company is opening a Scottish office and I don't want to move house.

I haven't worn my denim kilt to work, as denim is associated with jeans which are casual clothing.

[Peter v]

It was not my intent to make light of the idea, but rather to point out that it might go over a bit easier if put forward with some levity. If projected as a very serious matter, I suspect that some women (read, "a vocal minority") would be incensed about the notion that they "should" (or are being "invited" to) wear a skirt to work -- and, if the guys are going to take part, then the jokes are going to fly anyway.

Carl - I'm with you 100% - but I refuse to wear a skirt AND talk like a pirate!

Gus

Just think you are a Scottish pirate...

[Peter v]

As for employers not tolerating it - this could raise some interesting issues and may eventually cause a lot of employers to revise there ridiculous double standards dress codes.

I don't know how it is in S. Africa, but here in America, you may have to walk a year to find an employer that will do anything other than fire an employee that is harrassing him to change the office dress code. I've worked for employers all my life and been an employer part of my life and if it's MY money being lost if I lose ONE customer because he doesn't like how one of my employees looks, that employee is discontinued for cause. ie: FIRED! Any employee or group of employees pushing me to change office dress codes to suit them and are not in a union that supports their cause are right out in the cold, no matter how much tenure they have. In America, we support an employers rights to run his business in a profit making way. Dress codes are part of that. In Colorado, there is a bottled water business run by a Scot who has all his employees wearing kilts. They complained in the beginning preferring their suits etc. but got used to kilts as the owner was not changing his mind. His business, His money, His rules. In America, there are tons more people looking for jobs and will wear whatever they are told to wear than people arguing about dress codes.

If That were to happen, I as the employer I would ask, no, demand a reason from the client as to WHY he/she discontinued their clientel. Pointing out that the service is still 100 percent as before, and that I did not and do not tolerate discrimination, and that if the client was disriminative in that way, I would be pleased to see that client leave, but not pleased to see his / her buisness taken else where, and state that all the years of good communication and good service apparently mean nothing as compared to a personal disrespect / unnaceptance of anybody wearing anything other than what that client wished that others wear.

I would state that my personnel are not slaves to the clients, or me either.

I personally doubt if clients would actually take their business elsewhere. I would be a tirant If "I" were to treat my personnel as slaves just to satisfy the PERSONAL taste of any client for issues which are NOT relative to the deliverance of goods, in materials or services. But of course if you are a business man/woman you cease to respect fellow men/women and cease to see and treat them as equal human beings.

Makes me think about earlier times with ( coloured people ) slaves.....

I do realise that there ARE people out there for whom all other people are purely instruments with which to fill their pockets. I bet they feel just dandy.

[Peter v]

Mugman, well spoken.

"Re: Spreading the Word
Postby mugman on Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:08 pm"

Critical mass is not essential. Any representative mass, ie THE mass that WE are, is enough. Any event where "we" all skirt wearers finally get out there on the day of reconing so to speak.. On the day which was advertised long before, will be suitable and have the desired effect. No good saying the critical mass is ten million, having only max 750,000 men, and then saying there is not enough critical mass. rubbish. We can't represent more than we are in total.

How did Gothics get their status? Surely there are not so overwhelming numbers out there? But I think that THEY do come out in the street, and many men in skirts DO NOT.

Any event for men in skirts must of course be well orchestrated, to get maximum advantage. But the best orchestration is a full attendance of participants. If everybody knows that there is a men in skirts day, when they see any man in a skirt, they can immediately refer to that information. Those who see a man in a skirt on that day surely would not be asking for any critacal mass, as THEY have seen a man in a skirt, which I think was the whole meaning of the day. Awareness and education of the general public and as a stimulus for would be men in skirts.

[mugman]

Wearing a skirt should IMO be considered by colleagues (ie work, social-type club, etc) as an act of strong belief in a right to exercise that choice, if not also an act of considerable 'bottle' (courage) to openly adopt that right. With that in place, respect comes easier. But for these qualities to be associated with skirt wearing, there has to be a foundation period where the controversial issue of a man wearing a skirt is first dealt with, and positively proved to have no reasonable grounds for appearing to be strange, weird or effeminate.
Starting off a conversation among your mates with 'I'm thinking of wearing skirts' isn't probably the best way to approach the subject for obvious reasons. It needs a catalyst that has some power behind it, and a sense of 'breaking all the rules for the good of mankind's freedom of choice'.
One deep rooted characteristic is that men don't normally dwell on fashion topics, unless connected with what the opposite sex wear. So, to start wingeing about not being able to wear skirts is also probably not the way forward. You might even find that your listeners uncomfortably ease away a few more inches from you on the park bench during the lunch break.
I think there needs to be a proper 'movement' that can be referred to. These have come and gone in droves, 'Ban The Bomb' probably being the most widely known.
The 'movement' needs to drum home not only the right to clothe in a lesser rigid way than males have always had to, but also make plain that the more casual nature of looser fitting clothing can only improve one's working morale and, generally, one's lifestyle. I would guess that few men actually enjoy wearing suits, which is why they immediately change into something more comfortable when they get home. To be more casually dressed (but a skirt can at the same time be smart), is a below-the- stomach-blow to those in power who dictate what we must wear at work. That power is also of course society itself.

I believe a 'skirt day' needs to have a greater foundation of thought behind it...a 'Stage 1' exercise designed to germinate the skirting idea early on, emphasising exactly what the arguments for it are all about; something any of us can refer to with 'I really believe in this notion'. Once that germination has grown some roots, and the reasoning of the 'movement' is fully understood on a grander scale, it then comes as less of a surprise when a friend or colleague turns up in a skirt.

I have enjoyed, for my sins, working at various levels of seniority, and I know through experience that not all levels of management enjoy having to work day in day out strictly to the book. Some are rebels with a cause, which is sometimes how they come to be in management in the first place. I would not assume that all higher staff are not without their 'warmer' sides towards an issue that staff feel strongly enough about. But the skirt idea must NOT appear to be just a frivolous fad. It should come across as probably one of the last, but so easily remedied, equality barriers which should now be addressed.

I vote that there should be a suitable name for the movement, and a short printable article of some authority that can be carried in the billfold/wallet would be very useful. The name, and what it stands for, once firmly anchored, then carries across to the Skirt Day operation as being the force behind it.

Luckily there's no confirmed deadline on any of this. I would see the Skirt Day coming when it is felt to be most appropriate, after all the essential backup of education has been given a chance to take root. Letters to local free press. Car stickers. Banners on personal websites, blogs, etc, etc. All of this is so far missing, and should be in place soon. That is, if we really want to make change. Yesterday, apparently, was 'National Kilt Day'. I wear kilts most days, and was not even aware of this. Strong publicity is so important, a message on a lone website is too insignificant. I missed it completely.

A company's dress code can only be as effective as the written wording of any contract of employment. If it refers to wearing a suit and tie at all times, then it doesn't actually condemn a matching skirt suit and tie. I wouldn't think that there are many contracts around which request male staff not to wear a skirt at work.