So here is a poser.

[JRMILLER]

Chris, Carl,
You can't really blame them, most people are "unconscious" and unaware that their ego's completely rule their lives. It's a form of insanity, an all too common one. Anyone who wakes up and reasons these things out quickly tosses aside the bigotry and hatred. One day, I hope, they will all awaken. It may take a few more generations....(or centuries).

[Bob]

One day, I came to the "gestalt" realization that the root of anti-gay rhetoric is an anti-feminist desire/need to keep men in power over and above women. A pro-gay society is also a pro-feminist society, and vice versa. We have seen the status of women in general, and that of gay men, rise together.

It is not necessary to be anti-lesbian in order to maintain chauvinist power. In general, "aberrant" things that women do are less threatening to the power structure (due to the unfortunate lower status of women to begin with). That's why the anti-gay movement has been so focused on gay men, as opposed to lesbian women.

Sorry if this sounds far out, but I really believe it. I can give more details, I suppose.

What this means for our little social movement, I believe, is that it is critical that we adopt a feminist perspective and work for the equality of women in the various places in which women are discriminated against --- the workplace, the priesthood, etc.

[Colin]

I am against any type of unfair discrimination. Focus on discrimination in general may win the day.

[AMM]

I am against any type of unfair discrimination. Focus on discrimination in general may win the day.

This is nice in theory, but doesn't work well in practice.

The problem is that discrimination doesn't exist "in general," any more than there is pollution "in general." Each discriminitory practice against each group has to be individually recognized publicly as existing, then recognized as "unfair," and then seen as something that needs to be eliminated. Moreover, with many of these practices, reasonable people can differ as to whether a particular practice is "unfair." (And, once you include the unreasonable people, it turns into a real free-for-all.)

It's also quite common for people who are very aware of the manifestations of, say, sexism, and are active in fighting it, to be totally unaware of their own rather blatant, say, racism, or class prejudice. Etc.

[Sarongman]

Sort of apropos the thread, today marks the fortieth anniversary of Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" speech. Discrimination, in this case, against Caribbean immigrants. I heard a Briton of Caribbean extraction complaining about Polish immigrants taking jobs from "honest British workmen" -- Ho hum!