New girlfriend not accepting.......

[Reject]

Hello all

I seldom post at this forum since I seldom have any issues with my kilt-wearing (or skirt-wearing for that matter, even if I rarely break out one of my 3 skirts).

However, now I did stumble upon an issue which I never expected. My girlfriend since 3 months back was first very supportive and gave me positive feedback on my kilts. She even made some good comments once when I had a denim skirt and also once when I had black tights with one of the kilts.

Now though, she has swung the pendulum and said that she was trying hard to accept it and was "pretending" it was good-looking, when she really, deep inside, didnt think it was at all.

She has asked me to stop, alternatively, only wear kilts when she's not around. This poses a great problem of course, since we are enough serious on other matters to be a real couple and, sooner or later, move in together.

Now Im completely lost and I dont know what to do. I wear kilts as part of my identity. I dont belong to a nation or culture (I was born in-between), and instead I emphasize my sub-cultural belonging through the use of my attire.
In a way, many cultures/nations do this as well. The simple difference is that nations and cultures have an accepted status in world communities, whereas sub-cultures do not.

I am faced, ladies and gentlemen, to give up a great part of my identity in favour of a girlfriend, or simply be without a girlfriend. I said it before, but I will say it again - I am lost and dont know what to do. I have tried explaining to her that its part of my identity, and if I change then perhaps I will be someone else than the man she fell in love with. She "kind of" buys this argument, but still insists that I keep it to myself.

Any advice or story of similar experiences is gratefully accepted here, lads.

A simple guy trying to be a hero in the rain,

Ricky, Sweden

[Stu]

Ricky

You must sit her down and talk to her. Tell her that, for a while now, you have been upset at seeing her wearing trousers and jeans and you would really prefer it if she only wore skirts and dresses from now on - starting today. But, in return for her kindness in doing this for you, you will immediately stop wearing skirts and kilts. You wear the trousers - she wears the skirts. Simple. A little give and take and everybody is happy.

But of course she's not happy. So you ask her why she isn't happy. Then you work through with her the unfairness of her position - that she expects to be able to wear whatever she likes and feels comfortable in, but she expects you to give up that right.

If she is really stuck for an argument, then she may say that it is not traditional for men to wear skirts. So you say that some traditions are bad and this is one that is bad because it discriminates. Women fought against discrimination and they won partly because they had courageous men behind them. Now you are a man fighting discrimination, and you want her to support you, and not to be one of those who agree with discrimination.

Good luck

Stu

[iain]

that's a tough one--it's made tougher by the fact that she initially accepted it. what sounds more likely is that someone has influenced her since then, because I don't see how someone can like something one minute and not the next.

maybe you need to find people who do support you. my g/f's comment was that it was fine, and sexy, but not something she'd want to see me do every day. but that's fine with me because after a kilt, I like jeans, and vice versa.

so we agreed to go shopping for skirts which she liked--we found a g-star one which looked great, and rejected a denim one which she said was too short. so already we've compromised. we then found some great diesel boots that she said would go perfectly with the dark grey military skirt. she even said the skirt seemed to be designed more for guys!

I was lucky with that--I think if you involve her in your thinking she may find it less threatening. I think if you bury the issue it will re-emerge later, so like beer, it's the ultimate short term solution! best of luck.

[bob striks]

This is a very difficult situation that I am sure many of us have had to face over the years. I do not think there is no absolute answer to your question. I think you have to sit down and take an honest inventory of what is important to you. If kilt/skirt wearing is a part of your identity, is it a part you are willing to give up for this relationship. I think it is really important to be honest about this question because if you give it up and do not really want to you will end up holding against your girlfriend and the relationship will not work. It is best to be honest with yourself and your girlfriend upfront rather then have it boil over later. I went through this with an x girlfriend at one point. I tried doing the whole not around her thing, but the relationship still ended badly as I grew to resent her. I did however come out of it with a better understanding of who I was and what was important to me. I am now in a great marriage with a very supportive wife. Anyway I think it is important you be honest with yourself and tell her your decision and let her decide how she wants to respond.

[Reject]

A thousand thanks for the swift replies. I'm much grateful.

I just spent an hour talking to her over the phone. It is quite obvious that she does not listen to reason and the "equality argument" doesnt work for one bit.

After some discussion she was however willing to be "neutral to kilts" - meaning she doesnt like it, but will be accepting none-the-less. Question is how much this is worth in the long run.

I love her lots, and if this doesnt work out, then the thing that we call "love" will never work out in my life.
I will have to sit down and think this one over. Either I keep myself 'whole' and at peace with myself, or I try to battle my individuality and sense of self for the purpose of living an ordinary life.

To be honest, I think she is overreacting, but I am in no control over her feelings and thoughts. I have a well-paid job, a central apartment smack in the city, a home music studio, good furniture, good friends and the lot. Work collegues as well as friends are acceptive. I do not see where my girlfriends concerns lie, nor have I been able to drag it out of her.

Gentlemen, I face a crossroad of which there is no compass to guide me. Only I can take this decision.
That said, further input or feedback or similar experiences will be much gratefully accepted.

Cheers, I say...

[supertaff]

Many years ago, my wife (girlfriend as she was then) used to dress me up in all manner of ladies attire for our "bedroom antics".
These days she hates the idea of me wearing skirts and dresses.

We're having counselling to resolve this. It's expensive and I'm not that sure it's worth the cost.

We're at the stage where she's OK with me dressing up as long as she's not around.
She's out 2 nights a week, so that's my time to play.
It's not ideal, but I do get 3 hours each night to do my own thing.

Hopefully she'll get back to her earlier way of thinking, but I doubt it.
Apparently this accepting/not accepting thing is very common. It's also hard to predict when the ballwill swing your way

Good luck
ST

[AMM]

...
It is quite obvious that she does not listen to reason and the "equality argument" doesnt work for one bit.
...
I love her lots, and if this doesnt work out, then the thing that we call "love" will never work out in my life. Either I keep myself 'whole' and at peace with myself, or I try to battle my individuality and sense of self for the purpose of living an ordinary life.

"Never" is a long time.

It may seem like it will be the end of the world if you split up, but I can tell you from bitter experience that a relationship built on this kind of "submission" is worse.

It's not so much a question of whether you wear kilts, or skirts, or jeans, or whatever. But, regardless of whether you ever wear a kilt again, you are not going to stop wanting to (or stop resenting that she "made you" stop.) If she can't face this part of you, and accept it, and decide that she'd rather have you with it than not at all, and you are so afraid of losing her that you are willing to pretend it doesn't exist, then I forsee trouble down the road.

I've been down that road. You give up a piece of yourself because you think it's a choice between giving in or giving her up, and giving her up seems worse. And you keep giving in, until you discover that you've given up your soul, and all you have left to give up is life itself (and I don't mean that metaphorically.)

And when it's over[*], and you have lost her anyway, and 20-some years of your life, and you have the time to think, really think, you realize that you did her no favor by giving in. All that time, she had only the illusion of a relationship, and you encouraged her to live a lie.

In relationships, the zero-sum-game model is really a lose-lose proposition. The greatest -- the only -- thing you have to give is yourself. And when you cut out a part of yourself, and give that mutilated self to someone, it's like giving someone a spoiled can of tomatoes (the kind that's full of botulism.)


I know it's hard to believe when you're "in love", but there are other women out there. If this one can't accept who you really are -- "wierd stuff" and all -- it's better for both of you if you move on.

(And if you do it now, you may spare your kids the misery of a divorce.)

-- AMM

[*] I'm assuming you've come to your senses before you're actually, clinically dead. No smiley her.

[crfriend]

I'll have to chime in with Bob Striks on this one; you're in for a tough go no matter which way you decide to take things. If wearing "non-traditional" (in a narrow Western sense) garb is important to you, and anecdotally it seems more important to those who do it that meets the eye, then you've got a very hard decision to make: put bluntly, it's between who you are, deep inside, and whether you're willing to trade some of that innate desire for some (probably momentary) peace on the domestic front. If your mode of attire isn't all that important -- and you feel you can just chuck it, because that's what you'll be doing -- then it may let your relationship continue for a bit.

The troubling thing here is that you mention that she was originally accepting -- even encouraging. My gut reaction is that this is going to devolve into a dominance/control issue completely aside from clothing choices -- and that's damned unhealthy for the both of you. Guys that have long hair (how "safe" is that!) have that problem quite frequently, and it commonly ends up destroying the relationship, usually after some years. In a way, you're fortunate that you've hit this issue now rather than ten or fifteen years "in"; now there's not a whole lot of baggage to be sorted through if it turns out that the best course is to "cut and run".

The certain sign that it's a control issue is if the classic, "If you loved me" line gets used; that's a dead giveaway. Don't submit to manipulation, and call her on it if that's what you suspect; and don't resort dominance tactics yourself. If your relationship is a healthy one, getting dominance out in the open where it can be recognised and dealt with properly is important. Dominance is corrosive; it's slow, it's nasty, it's unrelenting -- and it can take years of unwitting misery to really realise what's going on.

[Tripp49]

:sarcastic: Hello REJECT! My man life is too short to live it the way some one else wants you to live.Be your self.If you try to live it the way someone else tells you,you have NO life.:shake: If she is that controling now just wate and see what she will be like later.:sarcastic: It is better to cut loose now, than to try and live a lie and the relationship will probabely end anyway.Un less you like being told what you can and cannot wear or do.
Just my two cents worth. (BE HAPPY)

Tripp49:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

[Bravehearts.us]

Many years ago, my wife (girlfriend as she was then) used to dress me up in all manner of ladies attire for our "bedroom antics".
These days she hates the idea of me wearing skirts and dresses.

We're having counselling to resolve this. It's expensive and I'm not that sure it's worth the cost.

We're at the stage where she's OK with me dressing up as long as she's not around.
She's out 2 nights a week, so that's my time to play.
It's not ideal, but I do get 3 hours each night to do my own thing.

Hopefully she'll get back to her earlier way of thinking, but I doubt it.
Apparently this accepting/not accepting thing is very common. It's also hard to predict when the ballwill swing your way

Good luck
ST

So you get 6 hours a week to be you and the rest of the time you’re in servitude?

[Dick Ackerman]

Run the other way fast and don't look back. You are seeing a sign of things to come. Take it from one who has been married almost 40 years.

Dick Ackerman

[Bravehearts.us]

Hello all

I seldom post at this forum since I seldom have any issues with my kilt-wearing (or skirt-wearing for that matter, even if I rarely break out one of my 3 skirts).

However, now I did stumble upon an issue which I never expected. My girlfriend since 3 months back was first very supportive and gave me positive feedback on my kilts. She even made some good comments once when I had a denim skirt and also once when I had black tights with one of the kilts.

Now though, she has swung the pendulum and said that she was trying hard to accept it and was "pretending" it was good-looking, when she really, deep inside, didnt think it was at all.

She has asked me to stop, alternatively, only wear kilts when she's not around. This poses a great problem of course, since we are enough serious on other matters to be a real couple and, sooner or later, move in together.

Now Im completely lost and I dont know what to do. I wear kilts as part of my identity. I dont belong to a nation or culture (I was born in-between), and instead I emphasize my sub-cultural belonging through the use of my attire.
In a way, many cultures/nations do this as well. The simple difference is that nations and cultures have an accepted status in world communities, whereas sub-cultures do not.

I am faced, ladies and gentlemen, to give up a great part of my identity in favour of a girlfriend, or simply be without a girlfriend. I said it before, but I will say it again - I am lost and dont know what to do. I have tried explaining to her that its part of my identity, and if I change then perhaps I will be someone else than the man she fell in love with. She "kind of" buys this argument, but still insists that I keep it to myself.

Any advice or story of similar experiences is gratefully accepted here, lads.

A simple guy trying to be a hero in the rain,

Ricky, Sweden

So she’s been in your life for three months and during your whole life together (3 months) she’s been pretending and now dictating and you’re wondering if you should give up your life for her? Does she have some hidden power or buried treasure….something you can’t find anywhere else in the world? You’re treating her like a Goddess and she’s treating you like an employee. I guess I would be asking myself what else she’s going to be pretending about and what else she’s going to do a turn around about. I can’t give you any first hand experiences about girlfriends and MUGs but I can tell you I’ve said goodbye to friends and family because they wouldn’t accept me for who I am. Only you can decide what to do with your life. My only real advice to you is to look below the surface before you make a decision that will affect your life with long term consequences.

[Bob]

If this is part of your identity, then submerging it is a recipe for long-term misery, no matter how much you like her. Also... if she can't be open with you about why she doesn't like it, or how it makes her feel, then I would not give the relationship much in the way of longevity. What else will she not be able to be open with you about? Communication is so essential...

[binx]

My initial observation from her perspective. Perhaps she sees your "sub-cultural belonging through the use of [your] attire" as some sort of adolescent rebellion, so that by giving it up signifies "maturity" and your dedication to an "adult" relationship. Are we a sub-culture? Is that all MUGs really mean to your identity? Or is it more the comfort and freedom MUG wearing gives you? Are you prepared to give that up for a 3-month relationship based on false pretenses? Another two cents worth.

binx

[Since1982]

Reject, I think you'll find there are more than one apple in the barrel. I think you need to tell her point blank that you "reject" her want to control how you dress while personally dressing any way she feels like. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. There are plenty of forward thinking women out there that will accept you for who you are and not worry about what you wish to wear just as she doesn't worry about others feelings about what she wishes to wear. Plenty of other "apples" in the barrel of life. You just need to maybe get out more and meet them. :shake: