Will soon be going public

[hiker]

Take a deep breath, listen to what your family has to say, and then pray.

I know it will be hard to listen to them - but if you want them to listen to you, you will need to listen to them first. Parents are interesting creatures (I have two sons - grown and out of the house) much of their place in their community is often tied to how their children are percieved. Even though I am in my 50's, when I visit my parents -- I have to go to church, go to sunday school, go to prayer meeting and talk about my most recent trips to third world countries to help the poor. And all of this is so my parents can show off the kinds of children they raised. (yes I have worn skirts/kilts with my parents and I have worn them to church - but not to my parents church). And it is a pleasure to see my parents being proud.

So I suspect, as you noted, the biggest issue is the embarrassment of your mother within her community. I see the note that you are a Mormon. I was raised in a Mormon community (I was an outsider) and I know that conformity is very important to them. Just by wearing a skirt, you will place yourself at the edge of the community. You might be willing and comfortable there but your mother isn't and isn't likely to ever be fully comfortable at the edge of her community. Listen and understand what your mother is trying to say. Quietly keep up the point that you not gay, TV, CD or anything else. You are still the God fearing child that they raised. But that you are the edge of fashion and note that your clothing preferences may change in the future, but for the moment ...

Now on to skirts with that said - when things quiet down, mention that you plan to wear your macabi around the house but not to church. It's good idea anyway to get used to the dimensions of a skirt before you go out. An out that may help is to mention that the skirt is very similar to a men's prayer skirt - just a different color. I know probably wrong faith, but the idea that other men wear skirts may help. Also note that in many cultures around the world men wear skirts. Talk about Scottish skirts (kilts), offer that as a compromise for the moment.

Talk about women wearing pants/jeans and ask what about them (quietly, thoughtfully). Note that you don't look like a women when you wear your skirt, nor are you trying to.

Above all remember they are your family, you won't get another, and they are not quite where you are yet on this issue. Give them some time to catch up. And keep praying - I'll include you in my prayers.

[Dasani]

Just a note. I don't live in my parents home, but I do live on their property in my own place, so I am not far away.

Mom talked to me some more tonight after she calmed down and thought about it some more, but she is still very much against the idea of me wearing skirts until we are in heaven and wearing the standard robes:mad:

But..... I have a good friend whom I just this morning found out has a utilikilt and is into wearing it, and he helped me to come to the conclusion that it is her problem, not mine, and that I of course am a grown man capable of making my own decisions, and I can dress how I want. But as far as church goes, aparently if I plan to live any longer I better not dare atempt that one again.

My mother apparently still feels very strongly that I should not wear skirts at ANYTIME! And judging by the reaction I got today, I guess I better be very careful when and where I do it. But now that she knows I am into it, when I am in my own place, and not in her church, I will do what I damn well please, and she better learn to live with it.

Hiker, I totally know what you mean about wanting your parents to be proud of you, and that's probably the reason her reaction bothered me so bad. When you find out that you are such a disappointment to the ones you really love, it really hurts! I feel bad for whatever embarasment I caused her, but at the same time, she needs to sit back long enough to realize that no one else really cares. It is all her just afraid that everyone does. There is a lady in our church that has a lesbian daughter, and my mom has made comments multiple times about how that must be to have a lesbian daughter and to go to church and know that everyone is looking at you wondering what kind of a parent you were. I'm thinking my mother has some MAJOR self image issues. To flip out like that. And I really expected better of my sister! She and I are really close, and I thought if anyone would understand it would be her! I thought she was my best friend and being a girl might somewhat understand why I would want to wear skirts. But instead like a lot of girls, all she ever does is complain when she has to, and will not waste any time changing into her pants! I swear that is so humorous!!!! To have her sitting here telling me how wrong it is that I want to wear a skirt, yet she herself loves to wear that wich at one time was completely un-acceptable for a girl to wear! I tried to argue the fact that things change over time, but my moms excuse is always that they change for a reason, and that we need to stick with what is normal in our society right this minute.

And get this!!! During our discussion today I said something about it being perfectly normal in other countries and cultures for men to where skirt like clothing. You know what she said? "Well other cultures are rapidly changing to be more like the united states, so pretty soon they will be wearing pants too" I was like holy crap you did not just say that!!!!

Anyway, as if you all really care all that much to hear all my personal crap! I'm sorry I just sit here and type and type away. I know a few of you might find it interesting or entertaining like a reality tv show. So enjoy whatever excitement you can get out of my troubles.. Or I should say my mothers nourotic troubles.

I appreciate the words of support/help/encouragment. I just need a few days away from the fam in quiet!

[Kilted_John]

Dasani,

I went through this exact thing with my mother and sister back in early 2002. My father thought it a bit strange, but never really was bothered by it. Eventually, I just decided to get a proper kilt after I expressed my disconfort around the nether regions and that the medication that I was taking for my eczema problems wasn't helping. After I mentioned that and that a kilt would help, my mother slowly began to accept the fact that I was going to be unbifurcated no matter what. I still don't wear skirts in public when I am around my family, but kilts have become 100% acceptable. I'll sometimes wear a skirt when I'm on my own in public. Mainly when a kilt is too warm, as well as when I feel like doing something different from the daily grind.

Don't let it get you down, eventually, things will get better in your family. I suspect that a tartan kilt might go over better than the Macabi, though. A bit more of a masculine look. Especially if you have any celtic blood in you. You might check out the Stillwater kilts, if you want something that looks good, but is affordable. Once the tartan kilt is ok, then maybe get a Utilikilt or an Amerikilt and get them used to modern kilts that are plain colored. Who knows, with that approach, you may be able to wear the Macabi around your family without them thinking you're crossdressing or becoming a TV.

-J

[Departed Member]

Dasani,

Has your father said anymore about the skirt to you? Or is everyone in the family in awe of your mother? I've often found it is more productive to try and quietly (fully) convince the sceptic of your reasons, and by doing so, gain their acceptance, if not total approval, before attempting to confront more histrionic opposition. Human nature shows that folk will listen to the noisiest/more aggressive viewpoint to the point of feeling 'comfortable' to join in with the 'bashing', whether they are convinced by the 'loud' argument or not. Speak to your family individually. Tell them you are puzzled (hurt, even) by their attitude/comments. Ask them (nicely & calmly!) what their problem is with your clothing choices. Explain, if you like, that you believe you have the same rights that they have, to dress in comfortable (and gender-appropriate - we are talking "Macabi", are we not?) clothing.

Have you (or your father/) had any further 'feedback' from your Church meeting? We often find that (almost!) 'everyone else' is comfortable/accepting of our personal choices (not just clothing!), and any (most!) 'hostility' comes from within our immediate family. This is invariably because they are more concerned with what they perceive other folk might/will think of them - utterly selfish of course, but that theme has often been re-iterated on this forum (& many others, too!).

[talon2mech]

Listen Dasani, I don't want to sound harsh but you need to set boundaries with your parents. You are a grown man, and it may be easier for your parents to (eventually) accept your skirt wearing if you act like a MAN and tell them how it is going to be. Your mom is probably afraid that you are a TV, and if you sit around and take her criticism she will begin to believe that you are. Act like a man and do your own thing, even in the face of adversity!

[Eagle 95]

I tried to argue the fact that things change over time, but my moms excuse is always that they change for a reason, and that we need to stick with what is normal in our society right this minute.

heh, I didn't get that memo. apparently she never considered that somebody had to break away from what was normal before, for a change to happen. and when they're proven wrong, the naysayers are always first in line to say "I was behind you all the way":sarcastic:

[crfriend]

To have [my sister] sitting here telling me how wrong it is that I want to wear a skirt, yet she herself loves to wear that wich at one time was completely un-acceptable for a girl to wear!

I'm not sure if you can get confrontational with your sister without nasty repercussions, but if you can just call her out on her hypocrisy and challenge her to think about it. If you two are really close that might be a decent start. Sometimes a good lively argument (note that both parties must be interested in the matter, otherwise it's preaching) can work wonders; just be prepared for the usual pablum that comes with the whole "gender identity" issue to get tossed your way.

I tried to argue the fact that things change over time, but my moms excuse is always that they change for a reason, and that we need to stick with what is normal in our society right this minute.

The problem there is one of the "chicken and egg" nature. If nobody dares to "think outside the box" then progress just isn't possible and life will stagnate. Human minds don't take terribly well to change, especially change that (seems to) warp perceptions that have been held for a long time (a single generation is a long time to that generation's members). It takes a brave person to not only initiate change, but a brave person to embrace that change before others realise what's going on.

As far as other cultures "becoming more like the United States", I certainly hope that trend stops, and stops soon.

[Since1982]

Male Mormons have been wearing white shirts, dark ties and dark trousers for a hundred years. I can't see that changing anytime soon. Dasani, if you cut off your parents from your life it might be more stressful than buying a kilt and trying that. Perhaps a black kilt would be best.

[Dasani]

Oh, it's become very apparent to me that it just plain is not going to happen around my family. They are way too stuck on something that they really should just let go. My mom is a fanatic when it comes to things of the church. ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING I or anyone else does is judged by wether the church would approve or not. If it is innapropriate at church, it is innapropriate anywhere says the woman who would not wear pants or shorts at church but wears them elsewhere.

So yeah. The only way I am going to be able to get away with wearing skirts is to do it way out of their sight. Because I do love my family and don't want to distance myself from them too much. But they are just not going to budge on this, especially my mom. I thought she was kind of starting to understand so I sent her an e-mail message with some links to places like http://www.kiltmen.com and stuff, and holy crap she blew up again! Got mad at me for throwing these internet groups in her face, saying "They are not the church! You need to do what the church says". So I was like "Alright, you won't ever hear about this again, it will never be a problem again, and you will never see me dress like that again". And everything is fine with her now. So whatever. Because of the weirdness of the whole situation, I asked her to never bring it up to me either. Just forget anything ever happened, and I will not bring it up again either. I feel that for now this is the best.

However, her response was something like "Yeah I figure when people from church ask me about it I'll say something like 'Oh his Samoan mode? Did you like it?'". Pisses me off because that tells me that she STILL is so uptight and worried about what people at church think about it! That is still her biggest problem. During one of her rants she said "People will think you have mental issues! People WILL distance themselves from you! People will not want their kids going around you! And people will be VERY uncomfortable around you, is that what you want?!?!?!"

She's brought up things guys in our church have said in the past about not dressing in a way that draws attention to yourself. If that is her problem, then she should have just as much of a problem with the vehicle I drive. It is a big lifted suburban that gets all kinds of attention! Yet she doesn't have a fit anytime she sees me in it!

So all of this still boils down to the fact that her biggest problem is that she still thinks I am doing it to be a CD or TV. That's all that makes since. That's all she can comprehend. She can't possibly understand why the hell a guy would want to wear a skirt unless they were a TV or something. But whatever, she can go on thinking that, and I will just dress how I want to when I am not around her since it is obvious she will not stand for it. And I know I don't have to not do it just because she doesn't want me too, but I also don't want a never ending war on my hands either.

[ChrisM]

I'm sorry Dasani for your troubles. Please let me however caution you about trying to keep your skirt wearing 'secret.'

First: I realize you didn't say 'secret'- you just said 'not around her.' But remember that you can't keep skeletons in the closet - they WILL come out. She'll come home earlier than you expected and see you walk in wearing the Macabi. She will hear about it from somebody in town who talked to somebody who knows somebody who saw you in Moab.... She might even steal it from your laundry.

There is a difference between "secret" and "not around you", and I think that if you can find that difference and walk it, things will be better than not.

Just a friendly caution, from the other side of 40...

Chris

[Since1982]

lol...thats a memory.... I remember someone last year that had his wife or mother or someone go into his room when he wasn't home and take all his skirts to the garbage truck...I think... something like that happened..I'm old, my memory is not so good anymore.

[jlhansen]

... my suggestion is you PM or email "Wild Bill" (check the member list link) and get his input on your situation as he seems to have successfully dealt with the "mormon" issue.

Myself (being a mormon {gringe}, it wasn't my decision), I just ignore the whole issue and live the life that feels right for me.

John

[W.M.]

I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune. Perhaps your Mom should have waited until she heard what other people thought about your skirt before she reacted that way.

One question: What if the majority of people in your church support you and tell her that? How would she deal with that?

If I can do anything to help, please let me know.

[cessna152towser]

Sorry to hear your mum's beeing so stubborn, Dasani. What a shame that she's so blinded by her church beliefs that she fails to understand how normal us guys on here are. I don't want to sound unkind about your mother but its a sad fact of life that people like her who have a mental problem such as this can't comprehend that the problem is all in their own mind. From what you've told us, I'd say she's in need of psychiatric help but I don't think you should be the one to tell her this. Maybe one of her church friends who approves of your skirts could persuade her to see a shrink. I think this needs to be resolved because as others have said you can't take your skirt wearing into the closet just to please your mother, but when you do wear them out and about the word will get back to her. By all means have a no skirts to church agreement with her but I think she needs to begin to accept that you will wear them at other times. As others have said you might want to consider a black kilt. I wear black kilts in heavyweight wool or lightweight acryllic depending on the season, with a hemline just below the knee which just touches the top of rugby socks or kilt hose, and with a plain sporran. My wife says I suit this look and in my experience it draws liitle or no attention out and about. By comparison, I find I am much more conspicuous when I am wearing a traditional knee length tartan Scottish kilt.

[talon2mech]

Dasani,
If your mom will not budge, why are you going to budge? You and she both need to get over the "powdered butt" syndrome and set some boundaries! You are a grown man and in my opinion it is unacceptable to bow to every whim of your family. Your family needs to realize that you are a grown man. They have no right to control what you do, how you do or when you do.

I have had similar experiences with my mother. We have fought each other tooth and nail for the last 10 years. She seems to believe that since she powdered my butt as a baby she can control my life now. I will not let her. I never asked permission to get any of my tattoos. I did not ask her permission to get any body piercings. I did not ask her permission to wear skirts/kilts. Did she disapprove? Yes! Did I succumb to her wishes? Hell no! I am my own man.

Instead of using the skirt argument try this. "Mom I am my own man now, and I will do whatever suits me. If you don't approve I will note your disapproval, but I will not stop doing what I am doing. I love you but I am not an 8 year old. I am a man, and as such I an going to continue to dress how I like"

End of story, you set boundaries, she gets pissed, she probably won't talk to you for a few weeks. She will come around, and sometimes a little distance is the best remedy.

When I refused to get my tattoos removed, my mother would not speak to me for 6 months. When she called I demanded an apology, she did not speak to me for 6 more months. One year latter she called and apologized.

Bottom line here is do what best suits you. You are in your 20s; she will not stop even when you are in your 40s. You must make the first move.