Urban has gone gender inclusive

[Barleymower]

What do you actually want then?

For me? Nothing. I have learned that my own life and actions is solely dependant on me.
For others? I want to help as many MIS as possible reach their goal of wearing whatever outfit they want (within decency) without fear.

What do I want from companies like UO? Well they could start by telling the truth. Their principle market for these clothes is women. The last hurdle women face clothes wise is it's ok for women to be masculine but not too masculine. That's where unisex comes in. It opens the door to masculine attire without being too masculine. The UO is playing the unisex card. Like I said, if they truely meant unisex they could show at least one token man.
Their headline on the website is not about men. It's about women buying more clothes.

[crfriend]

What do I want from companies like OU? Well they could start by telling the truth. Their principle market for these clothes is women.

Yes, a bit of honesty would, indeed, be welcome. First, let's start by exposing the utter fraud that "unisex" has always been, and that's not a gentle blurring of the hard-and-fast lines etched into concrete regarding gender, but the absolute aim to turn women into ersatz men. And this was successful in the long term; modern women are women in name only, with behaviours and appearances fully as boorish as what passes for men now.

Yes, women make up the vast majority of clothes-buyers -- but what are they buying? Menswear.

The OU is playing the unisex card. Like I said, if they truely meant unisex they could show at least one token man.

That defeats the entire rationale of "unisex" -- the superimposition of machismo onto women. So, equality is entirely incompatible with what we got with "unisex". Utterly incompatible.

[Barleymower]

You have to ask yourself what was the point of encouraging women to be more masculine by introducing masculine identity into the female identity? The shallow view is that it pushed them out of the home into tax paying jobs. Perhaps that is sufficient reason in this one track mind profit driven world. It gave our women folk the feeling of freedom and equality only to pin them down in the same trap that men live their lives.

If we accept this view then MIS are no better off, and never will be better off. Instead our women have been chained alongside us.

If that is the truth then we all men and women alike must fight to bring it down. It makes the MIS movement even more important. Unisex may be a mirage but by sticking our necks out we can change the world.

[crfriend]

You have to ask yourself what was the point of encouraging women to be more masculine by introducing masculine identity into the female identity?

The reasons were multi-partite and had origins in various mind-sets. Part of it was the First Wave of feminism which sought equality between the sexes, which was then subsumed and taken over by the latter waves which sought to replace men in society with "women" (which at the time were already starting to resemble men) and the rise of the militant lesbian. Another was the "greed aspect", and that was likely the prime mover.

If we accept this view then MIS are no better off, and never will be better off. Instead our women have been chained alongside us.

If one thinks carefully about it, that's about the only conclusion than can be clearly and directly reached.

If that is the truth then we all men and women alike must fight to bring it down. It makes the MIS movement even more important. Unisex may be a mirage but by sticking our necks out we can change the world.

Indeed, but the odds of that happen fall between slim and nil. And "unisex" wasn't a mirage, it was carefully crafted propaganda to drive an agenda. It's important to differentiate the two.

[brionacmkw]

Well the intent is there, I guess that is a start

[Mouse]

I guess I am not worried by any of this gender inclusive stuff from what ever direction it is comming from or for whatever reason. I currently live in a country where the laws are such that I am free and protected to wear whatever I like from the clothes available under any label. I revel in being different and special as I go about my life. I get people looking at me and interested in me, as I never had in trousers.

I do not think that the vast majority of men, will ever go into Urban and buy a skirt. Two things lead me to this conclusion.

1. The vast majority of women, 50% of the human race are voting with their feet and buying more and more trousers. Skirts are now only used by them to send messages, get attention and sometimes because they feel like wearing a skirt for comfort. so if women are coming out of skirts, why would men be going the other way?

2. A particular country has a proud history of men who wear skirts and a special skirt just for men, with history and honour combined in the skirt. Most men of the country rarely go near a skirt and prefer trousers. So why would men of other countries without a skirting heritage be any different?

So we are left with a simple truth. If you want to wear a skirt follow Nike and "Just Do It" There will never be a time where it is normal to wear a skirt as a man. There will be flashes of acceptance or curiosity with odd celebrities or companies making a splash for their own purposes, as we are seeing with Urban now and others before them.

But for the special independent man, a whole world of individual dressing is available to you that will set you apart from the rest of boringly dressed men. There is the opportunity to develop a whole style that is just for you. Take the clothes you want to wear and mix things up on your own body, until you find what works for you. make sure that what is in your wardrobe is a range of clothes that really excites and pleases you.

Commercial things like this Urban inclusive pitch, provide opportunity to move things with your family and friends, as do celebrities in alternative clothes. I made use of a kickstarter gender neutral skirt launch to move from kilts to standard skirts in my creative process.

[yardstick]

I revel in being different and special as I go about my life. I get people looking at me and interested in me, as I never had in trousers.

1. The vast majority of women, 50% of the human race are voting with their feet and buying more and more trousers. Skirts are now only used by them to send messages, get attention and sometimes because they feel like wearing a skirt for comfort.

This is exactly the point, look how many times you see two women wearing the same dress to special events, yes it happens on occasion but they usually try to avoid it as a lot of them strive to be unique at such events. Unfortunately Men have the uphill struggle of the uniform still to break and this will only change if men push for it otherwise the outdated lounge suit & tie will be here forever.

But for the special independent man, a whole world of individual dressing is available to you that will set you apart from the rest of boringly dressed men. There is the opportunity to develop a whole style that is just for you. Take the clothes you want to wear and mix things up on your own body, until you find what works for you. make sure that what is in your wardrobe is a range of clothes that really excites and pleases you.

I couldn't agree more, it should be all about being happy with your appearance. Until more men start to think like this the uptake by retailers such as OU is going to be painfully small.
The biggest drawback so far of course is that generally the retailers that have tried it in the past appeal to a more "alternative" market so tend to be off the radar of the average Joe on the street and often a little pricey. This is probably not helped by low production runs which puts those who want to try for the first time off as they won't want to spend too much in case its not for them.

So there you have it if we want this change we need to play our part in it.

[phathack]

While reading this discussion I thought its ironic that I have a new never worn Tux in my closet as I stopped attending the events in DFW, (Oprah, Ballet, Symphony, Charity fund raisers) that a Tux was the appropriate attire for men.
That was about the same time I started wearing skirts in public.
Seems I rejected the men's uniform just after buying a new Bill Blass Tux.

[steamman]

I guess I am not worried by any of this gender inclusive stuff from what ever direction it is comming from or for whatever reason. I currently live in a country where the laws are such that I am free and protected to wear whatever I like from the clothes available under any label. I revel in being different and special as I go about my life. I get people looking at me and interested in me, as I never had in trousers.

I do not think that the vast majority of men, will ever go into Urban and buy a skirt. Two things lead me to this conclusion.

1. The vast majority of women, 50% of the human race are voting with their feet and buying more and more trousers. Skirts are now only used by them to send messages, get attention and sometimes because they feel like wearing a skirt for comfort. so if women are coming out of skirts, why would men be going the other way?

2. A particular country has a proud history of men who wear skirts and a special skirt just for men, with history and honour combined in the skirt. Most men of the country rarely go near a skirt and prefer trousers. So why would men of other countries without a skirting heritage be any different?

So we are left with a simple truth. If you want to wear a skirt follow Nike and "Just Do It" There will never be a time where it is normal to wear a skirt as a man. There will be flashes of acceptance or curiosity with odd celebrities or companies making a splash for their own purposes, as we are seeing with Urban now and others before them.

But for the special independent man, a whole world of individual dressing is available to you that will set you apart from the rest of boringly dressed men. There is the opportunity to develop a whole style that is just for you. Take the clothes you want to wear and mix things up on your own body, until you find what works for you. make sure that what is in your wardrobe is a range of clothes that really excites and pleases you.

Commercial things like this Urban inclusive pitch, provide opportunity to move things with your family and friends, as do celebrities in alternative clothes. I made use of a kickstarter gender neutral skirt launch to move from kilts to standard skirts in my creative process.

Your basic argument reflects a causal model:

“If women abandon X, X becomes devalued meaning men won’t adopt.”

That comes from a status-based theory of gendered items:
• Masculine items moving to women resulting in status retained or rises
• Feminine items moving to men meaning status loss risk

Historically, that pattern has some truth (e.g., makeup for men declining in the West after early modern periods). So your skepticism isn’t irrational—it’s grounded in long-standing asymmetry.

But what’s changing now:
• Androgyny cycles are returning
• Gender expression norms are liberalizing
• Streetwear blurred gender silhouettes
• Youth cohorts show higher comfort with nonbinary aesthetics

So the structural conditions are different from past eras. Gender inclusive retail expands male clothing choice regardless of whether women’s skirt usage declines because they are independent axes.

[Mouse]

..........
But what’s changing now:
• Androgyny cycles are returning
• Gender expression norms are liberalizing
• Streetwear blurred gender silhouettes
• Youth cohorts show higher comfort with nonbinary aesthetics

So the structural conditions are different from past eras. Gender inclusive retail expands male clothing choice regardless of whether women’s skirt usage declines because they are independent axes.

I do not dispute that things are changing. In London you see many men in skirts, but they are wearing these garments for religious or culture reasons and none of them would use the word "skirt" or "dress" for what they are wearing. I also totally accept that more young people are occasionally trying a skirt out as fun garment or for a laugh. Make up, such as nail polish for men, is also not special any more in the younger crowd.

However my main point is that in the next 30 years, I do not see a major shift of movement from trousers to skirts for the human population as a whole, never mind men. I think the unisex fashion will centre around trousers and shorts as you find in the youth based stores at the moment.

So, if you want to wear skirts as a man, it will always be a bold choice for you, requiring some courage. If you wait around for things to change, you will not get to wear skirts for a long time, which is a shame, but your call.

[mr seamstress]

As Urbanoutftters enter the niche market of men the enjoy wearing skirts and dresses; the questions remain even her on the internet start seeing adverts of men wearing such attire? Here what deepai had to say about it.
To start seeing advertisements featuring men wearing dresses and skirts, several factors and steps could be involved:

Increased Demand and Consumer Interest: If there is a growing demand from consumers for gender-inclusive and non-traditional fashion, brands are more likely to create and promote such products.
Fashion Industry Shifts: Designers and brands adopting more inclusive and gender-neutral collections will influence advertising. Showcasing men in dresses and skirts can become more common if designers view it as a viable market segment.
Media and Cultural Representation: Greater representation of men wearing dresses and skirts in media, social media, and popular culture can normalize these styles and encourage brands to advertise them.
Brand Campaigns and Marketing Strategies: Progressive brands that prioritize diversity and inclusion might launch advertising campaigns featuring men in dresses and skirts to challenge traditional gender norms.
Advocacy and Awareness: Movements advocating for gender expression freedom and challenging stereotypes can push brands to be more inclusive in their advertising.
Targeted Advertising and Social Media: Digital platforms allow niche markets and social movements to promote visibility. If influencers and activists promote men wearing dresses and skirts, brands may respond with targeted advertising.
Legislative and Social Support: Societal acceptance and supportive policies can also influence brands to be more inclusive in their marketing.
In summary: Increased demand, cultural shifts, inclusive brand strategies, and advocacy are key to seeing more advertisements featuring men in dresses and skirts. The trend is gradually growing as society moves toward greater gender expression freedom.
As more companies enter this niche market, somewhere along the line they will start fighting for this niche market and start having personal adverts showering us with men in dresses and skirts. Currently you have Harry Styles doing this for Gucci.
There has to be a tipping point in getting these companies fighting for this niche market. In doing so could make this market bigger.

[crfriend]

As Urbanoutftters enter the niche market of men the enjoy wearing skirts and dresses; the questions remain even her on the internet start seeing adverts of men wearing such attire? Here what deepai had to say about it.

Discredit alert! This thread just ran off the rails and is now lying on its side at the bottom of the adjacent drainage ditch. Bonus points to those who can spot the place where it took the ground.


If we're to live up to the supposition that we're intelligent, thinking creatures we need to distance ourselves from the AS (Artificial Stupidity) that we're awash in now and put its "conclusions" and "ideas" in the bin where they belong. NONE of what AS puts to you is original, nor does it involve thought. It's simple regurgitation of data that were fed into it at loading time. If you're looking for the next "hot" trend (or stock), look elsewhere. Observe the world around you; watch how other humans in that world are behaving; then run cogent thought models on those observations and see where they lead -- again by observation. You're not going to get that from a computer program. Full stop.

The big thing with AS is that it panders to our own observational bias -- which we need to carefully sort out from the noise and the real data. The computer doesn't have a noise-filter on its inputs, nor can it understand the biases built into it by its programmers. Thus, what it parrots back is essentially noise that's gussied up to sound nice and appeal to the audience.

Don't fall prey to this. Live up to your potential!

[mr seamstress]

Discredit alert! This thread just ran off the rails and is now lying on its side at the bottom of the adjacent drainage ditch. Bonus points to those who can spot the place where it took the ground.

Carl, you are judging my post to harshly and believe you taking things out of context.
I'm not a mind reader just saying who knows some CEO in a company may find it be worth fighting to control this niche market and cause a trend. This is the context of my post.

[crfriend]

Carl, you are judging my post to harshly and believe you taking things out of context.

The thrust of mine is that we cannot take as gospel anything that A"I" may tell us because it's known to be untruthful, highly open to interpretation, and biased in ways that we cannot know because we have no idea who created it, why, and what it was fed for feedstock.

We're wasting time reading its output.

[STEVIE]

I am making no reference to any post on this thread, except my own, "it will make no difference".
Regardless of "gender inclusion" initiatives, this one by Urban Outfitters, is not the first and likely not the last.
It is not being done for any reason other than money, a way of increasing profits which never worked in the past and likely won't today.
This is of no benefit to men or women and there are no altruistic motives either, monetary gain and not fashion freedom for anyone!
As a male, if you want to wear a skirt, my best advice is get off your bottom and hop across the aisle.
No one is forcing you and no one is going to do it for you.
Note too that there is a sudden scarcity of A list celebs and influencers displaying MIS.
Watch the designer offering in 26, men's skirts, "so last year darlings"!
Cynical, you bet I am!
Steve.