Stop Assuming Biological Male in Skirt = MIS (They're probably pre-op transwomen)

[TSH]

I really don't see what the point of this thread is. Society brandishing identities on people for their sartorial choices is a reason why MiS hasn't caught on. Trans people make up, at most, %2 of the global population. People fight more for trans rights than men's rights to wear traditionally feminine attire because that's a more important concern at the moment. It's why MiS seems even more of a rarity than transwomen. It doesn't even make sense to just tell people to stop assuming that a biological male person in a skirt — who has zero indicators of being trans is a MiS, when you have scores of close-minded, belligerent, judgemental assholes who are all too happy to pass judgements on OUR gender identity, our sexual orientation, our mental capacity, and even OUR OWN CHARACTER for just wearing a skirt. This is a much more important issue on this forum than accidentally misgendering some person we don't even know is trans or cis — that's much less malicious than what we go through.

This place is supposed to be about advocating for greater gender expression for men when it comes to clothing. The fact that it's possible that a AMAB in a skirt could be trans before operation doesn't change that. This discussion feels like it's diverting away from that purpose to talk about trans issues for no apparent reason. They have their own problems to deal with, and so do we.

[Uncle Al]

Well said, TSH, well said

Uncle Al

[Stu]

I don't think I have a problem distinguishing between MIS guys and trans women. The latter usually have other feminine items of clothing like blouses or women's tops, female shoes, accessories like handbags and jewellery. They usually wear lipstick, eye shadow and mascara. They might be natural women with masculine features for all I know, so I don't make firm assumptions. When I see a fellow MIS guy, he is just a man who has chosen a skirt rather than trousers.

[DrFishnets]

The only so called feminine clothing I wear are dresses, skirts, tights (fishnets, opaques and sheer nylons) and leggings. I wear women’s jackets like leather biker jackets or trench coats but they were originally male wear anyway. Sometimes I wear ripped black jeans with fishnets underneath. I don’t wear make-up though I sometimes paint my fingernails black and I wear necklaces. I have a goaty beard but it’s only on my chin. I always wear big men’s boots like Doc Martens or Chelsea boots with my outfits.

[Grok]

At the end of the day, if you think there's nothing wrong with being gay or trans, why is it a problem if people speculate whether you're gay or trans?

Because that would discourage women from wanting a romantic relationship with you.

[Grok]

BTW my soon to be ex-wife of 44 years still maintains that I am trying to look like a female, sadly there are many more like her out there.

MIS is outside their frame of reference. MIS has been so suppressed by society, that it may not occur to some people that some men like a skirt as a garment, rather than as gender/sexual expression.

[Damon]

My late wife, who died more than 11 years ago was, I think, pretty conservative mainstream in her opinions. She considered a kilt to be a masculine garment, and was okay with me wearing one about our 10 acre property without a sporran or socks and with casual shoes or sandals. But out in public I had to wear a sporran, knee high socks and proper shoes. And I knew in my bones that she would never have accepted me wearing anything from the other side of the aisle and doing so could have made her less welcoming of kilts. When I got one, she did accept a Utilikilt for around the property but commented that it looked too much like a skirt to be worn in public. When we were a young married couple with small children she did accept our 3,4 year old son wearing a dress, but i think only because it was made by a company called Boy Design and sold in the Boys Department of Bentalls in Kingston. If she were still alive she might have accepted my Sport Kilt Recon model because it was sold as a kilt. I don't think she would have accepted the excellent Skirt Craft Unaligned skirt in black because it was sold as a skirt.
Personally I think we MIS make more progress towards general acceptance rather just polite tolerance and may inspire a few other men to try a kilt or skirt and their wives to let them if we avoid obviously feminine accessories.

[STEVIE]

Personally I think we MIS make more progress towards general acceptance rather just polite tolerance and may inspire a few other men to try a kilt or skirt and their wives to let them if we avoid obviously feminine accessories.

I see your thinking Damon, but I have to disagree.
In a relationship it has to be unhealthy for one partner to have the power of veto over the other in any sense.
Wives "allow" exactly what their husbands can, or cannot wear, vice versa is no better either.
As for the "Kilt", the perfect skirt for a guy to wear, true to his masculinity and with the actual approval of his exacting partner.
One problem, it's a lie and living a lie is self destructive in the long run.
Going back to the original title, men in kilts are not men in skirts unless they acknowledge the truth too.
Nah, men in skirts just for it's own sake is never going to become mainstream in our lifetimes.
Trans women may not outnumber MIS, but at an estimated 10% of the male population, the full on en femme cross dressers certainly do.
Ironically, they appear to be more likely to have a supportive partner than we do.
Steve.

[LiuBang]

I don't think I have a problem distinguishing between MIS guys and trans women. The latter usually have other feminine items of clothing like blouses or women's tops, female shoes, accessories like handbags and jewellery. They usually wear lipstick, eye shadow and mascara. They might be natural women with masculine features for all I know, so I don't make firm assumptions. When I see a fellow MIS guy, he is just a man who has chosen a skirt rather than trousers.

Wrong! My transwoman colleague (who went by she/her pronouns) was biologically male. Broad shoulders, flat chest, muscular build, deep voice, stubble. Zero cosmetics. No ear piercings. Yes he had long hair but it was not styled in any way. Always men's shirts and jackets paired with a dark blue or black, plain skirt.

There was a similar individual I saw at Costco and I said, "great to see a man in a skirt!" He just looked confused, and said, "yes, I was assigned male at birth, but I identify as female."

[Max]

I make all kinds of assumptions in these kinds of situations. And I keep them to myself.

[Modoc]

Seems like posters in this forum often see any biologically male individual wearing a skirt and assume, "Wow! MIS is growing in popularity!"
...

Sure, transwomen have the right to wear skirts and identify as whatever they want. But just be real: if you see a biological male in a skirt, chances are it's a pre-op transwoman rather than a man in a skirt.

We MIS are even more of a rarity than it would seem.

LiuBang, please explain to me what makes your observations and assumptions any more accurate than anyone else's. If you see a man in a skirt, all you have seen is a man in a skirt unless you have information about that individual that proves he is something other than that.

[Skirt18220]

Stevie: In my opinion you are far too negative on kilts. I think most men know they are a type of skirt. Thankfully they are a skirt that is identified as male dress. That makes it easy for a man to adopt the joys of skirts without worrying about criticism.
I have three kilt styled kilts i have made because I want pockets. They are made out of a patterned polyester fabric . I was wearing one yesterday while out. got four compliments on it. One by a man, three by women. They all called it a kilt.

[Mouse]

Stevie: In my opinion you are far too negative on kilts. I think most men know they are a type of skirt.

I don't know about Stevie, but my take on kilts is, as a man being limited to kilts as a the only type of skirt I am supposed to wear. I do not mind wearing a kilt and I have made two. It is just the feeling of being constrained to a set of men only rules, when we all know there are many types of skirts out there, that are great fun to wear.

[STEVIE]

Stevie: In my opinion you are far too negative on kilts. I think most men know they are a type of skirt. Thankfully they are a skirt that is identified as male dress. That makes it easy for a man to adopt the joys of skirts without worrying about criticism.

You are most welcome and , of course entitled to that opinion.
However, let me explain.
While most men would privately admit that the kilt is a skirt, their public opinion would be radically different.
The joy of wearing a skirt without worrying about criticism, that certainly does not imply any sense of self pride.
A skirt identified as male dress, correct, that's just a sop for societal acceptance and no route to any kind of fashion freedom for men.
Finally, being a Scot living in Scotland, I know that the historical and cultural provenance of the modern kilt/skirt is at best spurious down to absolute rubbish at worst.
Let me just add, I have no objection to the wearing of the kilt for whatever reason, but hiding behind it's facade of fake machismo is just wrong.
As usual, this comes unreservedly without apology.
Steve.

[Grok]

I don't know about Stevie, but my take on kilts is, as a man being limited to kilts as a the only type of skirt I am supposed to wear. I do not mind wearing a kilt and I have made two. It is just the feeling of being constrained to a set of men only rules, when we all know there are many types of skirts out there, that are great fun to wear.

Yes, looking at lists/charts of different skirt designs, you realize that skirts come in a surprisingly diversity of styles. And then there are different lengths...bright colors....

Looking at the various images posted by members, it is clear that a number of different (non-kilt) styles can look good on men.