interesting interaction

[Freedomforall]

Last weekend we were at a local Farmer's Market. I was wearing a Japanese Hakama. I noticed what appeared to be a lesbian couple that passed us several times. My wife later told me one of the women asked the other if she had seen me wearing a skirt. The other replied and was not sure how she felt about it.
Well, I did not hear any of this. I find it interesting that two people who are involved in a relationship that is still not fully accepted by most of society would question my choices. I do not recall them asking permission to live their life. They do not need it, nor do I.

[Barleymower]

I looked up Hakama and they are skirt like trousers for men and women. So they must be talking from a position of ignornance.
It is ironic that a group of people that strived for equality and acceptance become leaders in bigotry. The bullied becoming bullies.

[timemeddler]

sounds like the stereotypical lesbian.

[Mouse]

My wife later told me one of the women asked the other if she had seen me wearing a skirt. The other replied and was not sure how she felt about it.

The positive spin is that you were interesting enough to be noticed and talked about. Whatever their current thinking, you have introduced more people to the concept of a MIS. What's more they are talking about a MIS and will probably go on talking to others?

I would say this thread belongs more in the Advocacy section?

[Modoc]

People never cease to amaze me. I have long since learned that many people who have to deal with prejudices and biases directed at them often hold prejudices and biases of their own. There doesn't seem to be enough information about the conversation to say that's true of the females in question. Maybe they were just addressing the rarity of the experience of seeing a man wearing what they thought was a skirt. Maybe not.
Having lived in my skin and being, in many cases even now, a one-off, so to speak, I don't doubt that my being raises many an eyebrow, not just a Black man where there are few, but one in a skirt, no less. I tend to give people the extended benefit of the doubt and not assume that everyone who gives me a questioning look has malice toward me. A lady stopped me on the beach recently and commented about my clothes: a just-below-the-knee-length skirt topped with a sleeveless white tee and Birkenstock-like clogs. My Portuguese is still way below beginner level so I really had no idea what she was saying, but her attitude seemed more positive than not. She spoke no English, so we ended up just wishing each other good day and leaving it at that.
I say all that because one seeking an opinion doesn't necessarily mean that I'ts a negative thing, just a thing.

[STEVIE]

I say all that because one seeking an opinion doesn't necessarily mean that I'ts a negative thing, just a thing.

Agreed Modoc, a question is an indication of curiosity, not an insult unless the tone or content indicates otherwise.
That then leaves the response to be commensurate at your discretion.
Must say that skirts have led me into all sorts of "interesting interactions" and not any that I could describe as absolutely stereotypical from any group of folks so;

sounds like the stereotypical lesbian.

I could not disagree more TM, more likely from men, any orientation too!
NB even another guy in a dress.
Steve.

[MrSoapsud]

Unless I'm much mistaken, the responses in this thread are extrapolating from a couple of individuals to stereotyping a huge group of people and *judging* them. Isn't that the type of behaviour that we are trying to avoid being on the receiving end of?

[TheSkirtedMan]

Such incidents I have encountered but they are very much a small minority because you are out of ear shot. Compliments come often. Negative comments become know to us when my wife and I are parted and thinking I am out or ear shot say something. My wife simply says, "excuse me, that's my husband you are talking about". Their facial expressions are apparently worth watching. I have yet to see those expressions. Some even scramble for words, with apologies to my wife, but the facts remain.

Quite often it is the negative body language and facial expressions, nothing said, that let you know and they are happy to do it with you knowing, not behind your back. I often smile back but mostly just chuckle and make a remark loud enough for them to hear, "good to see others embracing freedom of choice as well". When others turn to look after a member of their group say something to them, I often give a little wave.

I find such encounters fall into two categories:

1 - Women who themselves are in trousers and items they expect me to be in. Often look very manly themselves overall. The most common of these two categories.
2 - Some members of the LGBTQ community. I find quite often they can be intolerant of others who are not them or the society "norm" expectation. Experienced before I am questioned on this point.

I have many quotes on my web site that cover these incidents. I just bring one or two to mind as I chuckle inwards at the bigots and hypocrites. They will never change and everyone some where has a differing form of it. It's society.

For me, rare incidents, negative body language more common, but I don't doubt double standards chatter happens without me being aware. You only have to listen to how others talk about others and situations. Just like we are here, but from the original post, entitled to talk of our experiences.

[Hayseed]

Unless I'm much mistaken, the responses in this thread are extrapolating from a couple of individuals to stereotyping a huge group of people and *judging* them. Isn't that the type of behaviour that we are trying to avoid being on the receiving end of?

Actually, I would assume that the responses in this thread are not just based on extrapolation from the reported incident (which is unclear in any case) but on other, real life experiences. I have experienced negativity from those who ought to know better due to their being gender minorities themselves. For example, members of the TV/TS community expressing the opinion that "it is wrong for a man to wear a skirt" (found in Tapestry magazine in the mid-1980s). Also, feminists who conflate MIS with transgenders of whom they disapprove for other reasons.

In the 1970s, when the issue of cross-dressing emerged into the public sphere, a lot of progressive, leftist, radical types were strongly negative, viewing the entire spectrum as "role reversal" and taking the seemingly lofty position of being opposed to all gender roles. This was the position taken in a famous article in MS magazine in the late 70s which characterized the entire spectrum of the phenomenon as a characature of women (the article has since repudiated by the MS editors themselves).

I always try to remember that there are bigots, and there are sneaky bigots.

[STEVIE]

Unless I'm much mistaken, the responses in this thread are extrapolating from a couple of individuals to stereotyping a huge group of people and *judging* them.

Actually, I would assume that the responses in this thread are not just based on extrapolation from the reported incident (which is unclear in any case) but on other, real life experiences. I have experienced negativity from those who ought to know better due to their being gender minorities themselves.

Sadly, Mr S, I have to say that you are mistaken and the negativity I experienced arose from 2 elderly woman who may, or may not have belonged to a gender minority.
Their dress, demeanour and attitude would certainly suggest clean living, God fearing, shining examples of womanhood in the twilight years.
That is, too much like my disowned sisters to hold positive connotations.
The scene is simple, a coffee house with access by a short flight of stairs. The two "ladies" were at a table at the bottom as I made my exit.
As I ascended, they began giggling like pre-teens and on commented on not seeing "up" my skirt.
When I reached the top, they were still cackling and making comment, I advised that I could still hear them.
Said coffee place is attached to a pharmacy and I had a prescription filled, by which time, they themselves were leaving.
I merely reminded them that their behaviour was incredibly rude and bade them a good afternoon.
However, I am not leaving it there, tomorrow I shall be in the same place at the same time tomorrow and so on and on.
Gambling, on "habitual" behaviours, those 2 are going to learn about this man in a skirt.
Make it my problem and meet your worst nightmare!
As for "stereotyping", my work can bring me into contact with some very dysfunctional people, never had that treatment from any of them.
Steve.

[Barleymower]

Sadly, Mr S, I have to say that you are mistaken and the negativity I experienced arose from 2 elderly woman who may, or may not have belonged to a gender minority.
Their dress, demeanour and attitude would certainly suggest clean living, God fearing, shining examples of womanhood in the twilight years.
That is, too much like my disowned sisters to hold positive connotations.
The scene is simple, a coffee house with access by a short flight of stairs. The two "ladies" were at a table at the bottom as I made my exit.
As I ascended, they began giggling like pre-teens and on commented on not seeing "up" my skirt.
When I reached the top, they were still cackling and making comment, I advised that I could still hear them.
Said coffee place is attached to a pharmacy and I had a prescription filled, by which time, they themselves were leaving.
I merely reminded them that their behaviour was incredibly rude and bade them a good afternoon.
However, I am not leaving it there, tomorrow I shall be in the same place at the same time tomorrow and so on and on.
Gambling, on "habitual" behaviours, those 2 are going to learn about this man in a skirt.
Make it my problem and meet your worst nightmare!
As for "stereotyping", my work can bring me into contact with some very dysfunctional people, never had that treatment from any of them.
Steve.

These old women seem to be displaying typical behaviours typified by Sigmund Freud
https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/sig ... re-courage
That is, they are ridiculing a male for displaying female characteristics. The reason a male should be ridiculed is because (according to Freud) "women feel forever inferior to men".
When a man acts as a women, he is no longer a man. Neither is he a women. He becomes inferior to women and worthy of ridicule.
By his non-agressive retaliation Stevie will reassert himself as someone not to be messed with and gain their respect.

Like it or not there has always been a power struggle between the sexes. This being played out right now in the media.

[DrFishnets]

The scene is simple, a coffee house with access by a short flight of stairs. The two "ladies" were at a table at the bottom as I made my exit.
As I ascended, they began giggling like pre-teens and on commented on not seeing "up" my skirt.

It’s embarrassing when something like that happens. Something similar happened to me when I was in my local shopping centre in the weekend wearing a gothic style black mini dress, black tights, Chelsea boots, a burgundy red waistcoat and a black leather biker jacket. There were two teenage girls walking in front of me and one of them turned round and looked at me then she looked at her friend and started giggling and shaking their heads. I felt a bit uncomfortable and just walked into any random shop to get away from them. Once I got out they were gone. I just said to myself relax it’s just two stupid giggling it could of been worse like me attacked or verbal abuse.

[STEVIE]

There were two teenage girls walking in front of me and one of them turned round and looked at me then she looked at her friend and started giggling and shaking their heads. I felt a bit uncomfortable and just walked into any random shop to get away from them. Once I got out they were gone. I just said to myself relax it’s just two stupid giggling it could of been worse like me attacked or verbal abuse.

Ah, Dr F, your two had the excuse of youth and ignorance on their side, my two had nothing but plain dumb ignorance to explain their crass behaviour.

Like it or not there has always been a power struggle between the sexes. This being played out right now in the media.

Sorry to differ with you and Sigmund, BM but those two harridans could just as easily have been male.
The language may have been different but the intent and prejudice indistinguishable.
My reaction may very well have been different toward two males too, more direct but measured and within the law, of course!
Steve.

[Barleymower]

Like it or not there has always been a power struggle between the sexes. This being played out right now in the media.

Sorry to differ with you and Sigmund, BM but those two harridans could just as easily have been male.
The language may have been different but the intent and prejudice indistinguishable.
My reaction may very well have been different toward two males too, more direct but measured and within the law, of course!
Steve.

Yes i expected that reaction
But there is something in there that needs to be teased out. Men are ridiculed for displaying what is defined as feminine. Women who display masculine characteristics may meet critisim but are not belittled.

[Susie]

Excuse me????

Firstly, you are lumping women into a homogenous group (again).

Secondly, if you are going to do that, then consider ALL the women on this piece of rock we call home, not just the ones in your circle (whether that be on line or real life).

Maybe women are not 'belittled' - but they are killed, raped etc etc for daring to challenge their particular society norms.

I'm not denying the issues members face but the grass isn't greener on our side of the fence - it's different and if you've got a Y chromosome, you have no idea what it is like to br brought up as female or the challenges and precautions we take every single day to stay alive.
.