Changing attitudes

[Hayseed]

It can be a fairly lonely world out there for men wearing skirts. Some on this forum have wondered when (and whether) things will ever change. It may be worthwhile to recollect some memories from the past so that folks can see that things do change, however slowly.

In the mid-1960s, the Seattle Times had a teen advice column called, I believe, "Ask Walt and Ely". One fellow wrote in to say that he had taken a walk through the park wearing a skirt on a dare. He drew lots of hoots, etc. Then, a few days later, he did the same thing again and his friends heard about it and, well, he was now a pariah and what could he do?

The advice columnists basically said, never, ever wear the clothing of the opposite sex under any circumstances whatsoever, not on a dare, nor as a joke, or for any reason. As for the writer, there was apparently no hope for him, just let his fate be a lesson to the rest of us.

Another writer told about being invited to a friends' house and, upon entering, found him dressed in girls clothing. The advice columnists advised him to get his friend into a psychiatrist, ASAP. Not a moment to lose because this was so very serious.

Back then, for a male to wear a skirt in public invited attention from police and institutionalization.

[STEVIE]

Back then, for a male to wear a skirt in public invited attention from police and institutionalization.

Hi Hayseed,
Sadly, for a lot of skirt wearing men, things are no better.
There are countries where men in skirts risk imprisonment and even execution!
In other placed where it would be assumed safe and legal, there is still areas of bigotry and intolerance.
Let me also assure you that a boy in a skirt at school is very likely to be harassed and bullied mercilessly.
Families will also still disown sons and brothers for their "abnormal" clothing preferences.
If you are free of such, be thankful and spread the message of male fashion freedom.
The irony is that even here, we speak of the "good" old days, really?
Steve.
Welcome to the cafe too!

[steamman]

It obviously depends on what country you live in, but in more progressive western societies, it’s definitely got better. Certainly, here in the UK, I’ve never had a problem wearing skirts and by extension high heels in public (they go hand in hand I usually wear heels with skirts). Today I went shopping in a denim maxi skirt with a pair of peep toe 6.3 inch stiletto shoe boots. Awesome. Nobody seemed remotely interested, and if they were, they kept it to themselves which is how I like it. Sure, I’ve had the occasional double take, but that’s about it. I think we are in a phase of collective indifference now rather than outright acceptance.

[Grok]

I guess that indifference could be considered progress. I have to wonder if people are ignoring others because, from their view point, they have their own problems.

The present seems so unencouraging as to lead to malaise.

[Mouse]

Today I went shopping in a denim maxi skirt with a pair of peep toe 6.3 inch stiletto shoe boots. Awesome.

Pictures? sounds a great outfit.

[denimini]

Sure, I’ve had the occasional double take, but that’s about it. I think we are in a phase of collective indifference now rather than outright acceptance.

I think that pretty well summarises my experience; some people take a second look and I think that "collective indifference" is an apt term.

[JeffB1959]

Sure, I’ve had the occasional double take, but that’s about it. I think we are in a phase of collective indifference now rather than outright acceptance.

I think that pretty well summarises my experience; some people take a second look and I think that "collective indifference" is an apt term.

More often than not, I don't get THAT much. Indifference is a good term for people who encounter me, and I'm fine with that.

[JohnH]

I guess I look enough like a woman when I wear dresses nobody gives me a second glance. I do get occasional compliments from women but not from men.

John

[STEVIE]

Yes my friends, all is nice cosy and pleasant for those of us seated comfortably with the offerings from our Baristas.
I am being quite honest , these stories are most pleasing but sadly not as representative as we might wish or suppose.
The countries where judicial sanctions exist for men in skirts is a simple statement of fact.
Those boys and men who have had the worst experiences for daring to be different won't be so likely to leave their stories on sites such as the cafe.
For all of us who can report in the positive, I'd suggest that there many more bad ones.
I have reported. my own challenges but they're comparatively minor.
In my time in the café I can't recall ever seeing what I'd describe as traumatic appearing on a thread.
Be thankful and make the most of the freedoms that you do have.
Steve.

[Hayseed]

Yes my friends, all is nice cosy and pleasant for those of us seated comfortably with the offerings from our Baristas.
I am being quite honest , these stories are most pleasing but sadly not as representative as we might wish or suppose.
The countries where judicial sanctions exist for men in skirts is a simple statement of fact.
Those boys and men who have had the worst experiences for daring to be different won't be so likely to leave their stories on sites such as the cafe.
For all of us who can report in the positive, I'd suggest that there many more bad ones.
I have reported. my own challenges but they're comparatively minor.
In my time in the café I can't recall ever seeing what I'd describe as traumatic appearing on a thread.
Be thankful and make the most of the freedoms that you do have.
Steve.

I guess I need to do a slight mea culpa. I should definitely have specified that my observation was relevant only to my experience here in the US. And even some places in the US are still quite backwards. Even so, I cannot imagine doing what I am now doing (wearing a skirt at the public library, getting ready to go to a restaurant) back in the 1960s. And I am in the very red state of South Dakota!

[crfriend]

In my time in the café I can't recall ever seeing what I'd describe as traumatic appearing on a thread.

Well, there was that one of mine from 2015 describing "The End of the Line" for my relationship with Sapphire, which was quite harrowing, but it was not directly related to my skirt-wearing.

Be thankful and make the most of the freedoms that you do have.

Indeed, be thankful, for those freedoms may well be taken away.

[TSH]

It can be a fairly lonely world out there for men wearing skirts. Some on this forum have wondered when (and whether) things will ever change. It may be worthwhile to recollect some memories from the past so that folks can see that things do change, however slowly.

The issue isn't that we don't acknowledge that change. It's the fact that it takes a long time to notice a noteworthy difference in attitude is what's troubling, because many of us might not see a positive shift within our lifetimes. Living a life where people genuinely have an actualized acceptance for your sartorial choices, instead of judgement.

In the mid-1960s, the Seattle Times had a teen advice column called, I believe, "Ask Walt and Ely". One fellow wrote in to say that he had taken a walk through the park wearing a skirt on a dare. He drew lots of hoots, etc. Then, a few days later, he did the same thing again and his friends heard about it and, well, he was now a pariah and what could he do?

The advice columnists basically said, never, ever wear the clothing of the opposite sex under any circumstances whatsoever, not on a dare, nor as a joke, or for any reason. As for the writer, there was apparently no hope for him; just let his fate be a lesson to the rest of us.

Another writer told about being invited to a friends' house and, upon entering, found him dressed in girls clothing. The advice columnists advised him to get his friend into a psychiatrist, ASAP. Not a moment to lose because this was so very serious.

Back then, for a male to wear a skirt in public invited attention from police and institutionalization.

What's ironic is that females in pants once had that same reception even before that. By the mid-1960s, not many people minded, or even cared; the people who did were already old folk stuck in their narrow-minded ways.

Reminding us just how dumb and ignorant people were back in the bigoted and intolerant days of the Unified Stupidity of Asshats doesn't change the fact that you could still be ostracized in certain parts in the world, including the most backwater cesspools here in the USA — the supposed "Land of the Free", just for being a male wearing something typically tailored for women.

Speaking of which, I can't find any pages referring to either article, but did anyone during that time let these idiot journalists know that women were actively crossdressing when they were wearing pants? That pants used to be an "only-male garment" at one point — for a LOOOONNNGG time? Were peoples' memories just as bad then as they are now?

[STEVIE]

quite harrowing, but it was not directly related to my skirt-wearing.

I appreciate the gross understatement in that and there have been events reported over the years which occur in all elements of society, that's life as we know it.
However, with the notable exception of "trouble with partners" and threads in a similar vein, all is "allegedly" hunky dory for men in skirts.
We know that men wearing skirts can face legal sanction, verbal and physical abuse for their choices, yet not a peep in the cafe.
We appear to lead a charmed existence.
There must be a very special secret ingredient in your coffee Carl.
Steve.

[crfriend]

appreciate the gross understatement in that and there have been events reported over the years which occur in all elements of society, that's life as we know it.
However, with the notable exception of "trouble with partners" and threads in a similar vein, all is "allegedly" hunky dory for men in skirts.
We know that men wearing skirts can face legal sanction, verbal and physical abuse for their choices, yet not a peep in the cafe.
We appear to lead a charmed existence.
There must be a very special secret ingredient in your coffee Carl.

We all know what life in "alternate attire" can bring one, and we all know that there are places one does not go when so attired, and we're likely all familiar with the fact that we tend to lead rather lonely lives. The key is to not harp on it, as we'll just make ourselves miserable so we put on the "happy face" and go about our lives.

I've received a fair amount of cr@p over the years for the way I dress, and I'm just ornery enough to not really care. "What's your problem?" is a common and familiar rejoinder, as is my cracking about, "You laugh because I'm different. I laugh because you're all the same." But I know what the future will likely hold for me, and it's not pretty. [1]

So, I've pulled my wings in a bit, and don't dress as adventurously as I used to. For one, it's still Winter here and it's too cold, really, and secondly with the recent rise of the Fascists in the USA I'm a bit nervous about bad behaviour being on the rise -- especially with the Fascist opposition to trans-* that's being spewed everywhere and whipping up the riff-raff [0]. It hasn't changed how I dress at home or in places I feel safe, but has changed things when I'm "out in the wild".

It's worth noting that I will occasionally try to "steer" the conversation into a positive-leaning frame now and then. It's not that I'm unaware of reality, it's that I'm aware that reality frequently bites and that the bites are usually survivable.


[0] Wasn't I writing about this a few years ago saying that we needed to distance ourselves from the trans-* crowd?
[1] For the record, I am NOT suicidal -- and haven't been since 2013. Having experienced that pit first-hand, and having managed to climb out on my own, gave me a new perspective on matters.

[jamie001]

I am very sad that our government has started a war against trans and gender non-conforming people. If you remember years ago, there was a war on gay people. It seems that in order to win an election, there must be an enemy, or a group of people that are villainized to create an artificial enemy that must at all costs, be defeated. Even though I don't identify as a tranny, by society's narrow standards, I am gender non-conforming as are pretty much all of the members here with the exception of the kilt wearers that do not wear skirts. I concur with CR that it is going to be a long, hard, bumpy road ahead for all of use especially with the focus on [rad-fem hate-speech redacted] that is really on the rise.

It is really unfortunate because I am fiscally conservative. I just can understand why the conservatives can leave social issues alone that are of no consequence in the grand scheme of the problems that are plaguing our country.

Jamie
Fashion Freedom for Men!!