Being fired for not conforming to masculine stereotypes

[Layne]

Your very last sentence in your first post:

I hate what has become of everything.

We live in by far, the most free country on the face of God’s earth.

The fact that an individual was fired because his personal choices didn’t align with those of his employer - is unfortunate, but not traumatic or catastrophic.

A private employer should have the right and freedom to hire who they choose and fire who they choose - without having to justify it.

If you add so much value to that organization that they simply must overlook whatever it is about you they might not like or agree with - then there’s no issue - if not, an expectation of conformity isn’t the end of the world.

[GoSkirtGo]

@Layne - I do (mostly) agree with your point about employers - but only when the same standards apply to everyone (subject to reasonable accommodations for religion/disability/etc.). If an employer allows women but not men to wear skirts/have long hair/etc.*, then that does not apply to everyone and falls under the subject of this thread (being fired on gender stereotypes). If for example an employer prohibits visible tattoos - regardless of the employee's race/sex/other protected characteristic - then that is reasonable IMO.

*I'm restricting this discussion to gender expression issues and leaving (for example) bathroom or other sex-segregated facilities access beyond the scope of this discussion.

[rode_kater]

We live in by far, the most free country on the face of God’s earth.

Tell me you're an American without saying you're an American. You probably believe it too.

The fact that an individual was fired because his personal choices didn’t align with those of his employer - is unfortunate, but not traumatic or catastrophic.

How can one be truly free if your employer can fire you for things not related to your job? You have a very different idea of freedom to me.
ISTM you allow true freedom only for the rich and powerful, everyone else just has to suck it up.

[crfriend]

We live in by far, the most free country on the face of God’s earth.

Tell me you're an American without saying you're an American. You probably believe it too.

The fact that an individual was fired because his personal choices didn’t align with those of his employer - is unfortunate, but not traumatic or catastrophic.

How can one be truly free if your employer can fire you for things not related to your job? You have a very different idea of freedom to me.
ISTM you allow true freedom only for the rich and powerful, everyone else just has to suck it up.

It all depends on how you describe "freedom". Yes, the United States is free:

Citizens are free to lose their jobs on account of whim or greed,
Free to lose their livelihoods by the "powers above" for whim or greed,
Free from proper access to health care,
Free to be victims of a predatory taxation system that favours gamblers and billionaires,
Free to be incarcerated for no good reason or on falsified charges,
Free from most of the pillars of Maslow's Hierarchy of needs,

BUT! We are free to wave our guns around, but are not actually free to use them for what they sometimes need to used for.

Yeah. "Free" my backside.

Why is it that if I roll somebody on the street for $20 I get five years in jail but when some a-hole brandishing a chainsaw can strip thousands of their livelihoods he doesn't face any penalty whatsoever? Only in the US of A.

Yeah, that's "freedom".

[Layne]

Employment is a privilege - not a right.

[moonshadow]

Your very last sentence in your first post:

I hate what has become of everything.

It seems a bit of a stretch to ascertain that my dissatisfaction with the current state of things (a vague statement in itself) has anything to do with me apparently "desiring to live free of any consequences and insisting that there be consequences for anyone that doesn’t share [my] position"

Frankly sir, you know nothing about me.

But for what it's worth, I prefer to not think of humans as mere chattel.

[Elisabetta]

Your very last sentence in your first post:

I hate what has become of everything.

We live in by far, the most free country on the face of God’s earth.

The fact that an individual was fired because his personal choices didn’t align with those of his employer - is unfortunate, but not traumatic or catastrophic.

A private employer should have the right and freedom to hire who they choose and fire who they choose - without having to justify it.

If you add so much value to that organization that they simply must overlook whatever it is about you they might not like or agree with - then there’s no issue - if not, an expectation of conformity isn’t the end of the world.

You judged him based off one comment? Wow says a lot. You really shouldn't make assumptions about Moon unless you know exactly what you're talking about. You don't have any idea what he's been through or what he's referring to and making a huge assumption about someone based on a comment of something that was pertaining to how they felt about current events or something that's taking place in their life is absurd.

[alexthebird]

We live in by far, the most free country on the face of God’s earth.

...

A private employer should have the right and freedom to hire who they choose and fire who they choose - without having to justify it.

If you add so much value to that organization that they simply must overlook whatever it is about you they might not like or agree with - then there’s no issue - if not, an expectation of conformity isn’t the end of the world.

Two points.

First, most of the people who say that the US is the “most free country on the face of God’s earth” that I’ve met haven’t spent much time outside of the US. I’ve spent considerable time in the UK and in France, some time in Canada, and so on. From my experience, no single country can make an iron-clad claim to be the “most free.” All have pluses and minuses that apply to the economy, health care, politics, religion, and so on. I don’t know your experience so I can’t speak for you but my wife and I can easily imagine ourselves being very happy living in the UK or in France. We choose the US for family reasons but understand that there are many experiences across the globe, some good, some not so much.

Second, if you really believe that a private employer should have that unlimited right, by extension you are also saying that employers should be able to hire 9 year old children to work dangerous machinery (common in the 19th century) or hire employees with mental or neurological deficiencies who can’t make informed decisions about their own situation.

I think the question is more about where we draw the boundaries between individual decisions and collective goals and reasonable people will hold different reasonable ideas about where those boundaries may be.

[crfriend]

Employment is a privilege - not a right.

In third-world holes. Not in a developed civilised country.

[Ray]

Agreed, Carl.

The ability to hire and fire at will does not exist in civilised countries. Just saying.

[Faldaguy]

We live in by far, the most free country on the face of God’s earth.

Layne: You have been duped. At least three generations of my ancestors were 'American' citizens. I was born & raised there -- took all the fairy tale Civics classes most kids in the US get. I 'served' in the USMC for nearly 5 years (not by choice). I've had businesses, been an employee, lobbied on the Hill and still own real estate in the US. I've also had the good fortune to travel widely -- your "most free country" is only another lie you have been told. I wish you luck in finding/learning more on this matter as it impacts you and most of us on this orb in devastating ways.