Are we narcissists?

[JeffB1959]

Hmm, interesting! I don't think I've ever viewed myself as a narcissist, at least I don't think I'm one. Sure, I know I'm pretty much out there, decked out in womenswear from head to toe while leaving no doubt to the public at large that I'm very much a man, despite my finery, I had no idea that made me someone too much in love with myself. Meh! At the end of the day, it really doesn't mean much to me, I just go about my business, enjoying what I do as a fashion freestyler.

[Midas]

Wearing a dress or skirt doesn’t make you a narcissist. The question would be better posed as ‘are we exhibitionists?’.

I would say that I am not, although I recognise that I will attract the notice of others when out in a dress.

[Coder]

Lots of good thoughts here!

Are they both not speaking to an audience? Okay... so this Google dude is all flamboyant and femme, a master at working people up in a frenzy... and does this pundit not basically do the exact same thing? (save the femme stuff, he just rants on his soapbox)

100%

The problem with attention seeking is when it gets out of control. A person is so attention seeking to the detriment of others.

I suppose - but I wrestle with whether any amount of attention seeking is acceptable (for myself).

Just one comment, so what if it is just a way of getting attention?
Nobody is forced to give it.

True.

Is there a bigger narcissist out there than the person who posted the original article on Twitter??

Good catch - and that's HILARIOUS.

If ever there vwas a time of year to go for a special dress, this is it.

Yeah - I have two outfits planned out for the holidays - and one might be a bit too, erm, attention-grabbing. Still have to decide whether or not I go with it.

I suspect that to some certain extent, most of us have somewhat narcissistic tendencies

Do we? I know others have said this, but I think there's "loving oneself at a healthy amount" and clinical narcism. And I don't think individual narcissistic traits make a narcissist (which no one is suggesting) - but perhaps if they are problematic enough for others - one should work on them to be a better person? The problem is recognizing a trait that one has that causes other people problems.

[crfriend]

I suspect that to some certain extent, most of us have somewhat narcissistic tendencies

Do we? I know others have said this, but I think there's "loving oneself at a healthy amount" and clinical narcism. And I don't think individual narcissistic traits make a narcissist (which no one is suggesting) - but perhaps if they are problematic enough for others - one should work on them to be a better person? The problem is recognizing a trait that one has that causes other people problems.

Note that I qualified it as "somewhat" -- which does not reach the level of clinical diagnosis. Clinical diagnoses lead to behavioural problems which my aforementioned comment had to be redacted on "political" grounds as I called out a prime exemplar. And these tendencies can be diagnosed "at a distance" by observed behaviour.

Some level of self-love is essential to human function, else we'd all likely be dead from suicide. It's where it gets carried to extremes that it becomes a clinical problem.

[Faldaguy]

by crfriend » Sun Dec 15, 2024 5:44 pm

Note that I qualified it as "somewhat" -- which does not reach the level of clinical diagnosis. Clinical diagnoses lead to behavioural problems which my aforementioned comment had to be redacted on "political" grounds as I called out a prime exemplar. And these tendencies can be diagnosed "at a distance" by observed behaviour.

I'd say being stepped on here only helps affirm your example. I concur we have sought to avoid political squabbles -- but we use public figures all the time for making points (even journalists get exemptions for such, on a much grander scale), but at SC there seems to be an excessive sensitivity to "my guy" who can't be used as an example of anything even hinting at negative regardless of the content; however, name calling the 'other brand' is given a pass. Many politicians are exemplars of some traits, when is that identification acceptable rather than 'political? OK, rhetorical questions aside, indeed it is the excess characterization of any trait that tends to tip us onto the dark side. At worst, I see 'influencers' here on SC -- and we don't even get paid for it -- conclusion: No Narcist's here.

Mayo Clinic would add a few more tells:

Symptoms
Symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and how severe they are can vary. People with the disorder can:

Have an unreasonably high sense of self-importance and require constant, excessive admiration.
Feel that they deserve privileges and special treatment.
Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements.
Make achievements and talents seem bigger than they are.
Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate.
Believe they are superior to others and can only spend time with or be understood by equally special people.
Be critical of and look down on people they feel are not important.
Expect special favors and expect other people to do what they want without questioning them.
Take advantage of others to get what they want.
Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others.
Be envious of others and believe others envy them.
Behave in an arrogant way, brag a lot and come across as conceited.
Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office.
At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they view as criticism. They can:

Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special recognition or treatment.
Have major problems interacting with others and easily feel slighted.
React with rage or contempt and try to belittle other people to make themselves appear superior.
Have difficulty managing their emotions and behavior.
Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change.
Withdraw from or avoid situations in which they might fail.
Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection.
Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, humiliation and fear of being exposed as a failure.

[moonshadow]

Well, we have arrived. Even our master barista has been muzzled.

With the individual in question, we may speaketh his name only if done so in high praise.

Free discussion of politics is encouraged in a free society, under tyranny the tongue is chained. I understand why it's discouraged here. We live in challenging times, regressive times, and emotions are running very hot. But isn't it a shame, when we can't even call out an observation of a person's characteristics that clearly seem to fit a certain definition? The observation was not in error, and yet, to speak it aloud must be restrained. Why is everyone so afraid of this man?

I had a conversation with someone the other day where we politely danced around each other in conversation for about a half hour before we both were brave enough to admit that neither of us really cared for the guy.

We have crowned an Emperor.

[JeffB1959]

Wearing a dress or skirt doesn’t make you a narcissist. The question would be better posed as ‘are we exhibitionists?’.

I would say that I am not, although I recognise that I will attract the notice of others when out in a dress.

Ahhh! Exhibitionist! YES! That word describes me to perfection!

[Myopic Bookworm]

If ever there vwas a time of year to go for a special dress, this is it.
If not up for a full ballgown - Monsoon have some occassion dresses that I think would fit the male figure.

I'd love to try a ballgown actually, but few occasions would seem appropriate. On Saturday night my wife and I went to a black tie dinner, and I combined my traditional black DJ (tuxedo) with an ankle length black Incerun men's skirt, and shiny T-bar shoes. This meant that I only looked unconventional during the drinks beforehand: no one could see the skirt when I was sitting down. (And no one could assess my choice of hosiery, though they could see the nail varnish!)

I learned two useful lessons: (1) never try to do up buttons until you are ABSOLUTELY sure that the nail varnish is COMPLETELY dry; (2) you can get purple nail varnish out of a white shirt collar pretty well, but you need an acetone-based remover: propylene carbonate will not cut it.

[JeffB1959]

If ever there vwas a time of year to go for a special dress, this is it.
If not up for a full ballgown - Monsoon have some occassion dresses that I think would fit the male figure.

I'd love to try a ballgown actually, but few occasions would seem appropriate. On Saturday night my wife and I went to a black tie dinner, and I combined my traditional black DJ (tuxedo) with an ankle length black Incerun men's skirt, and shiny T-bar shoes. This meant that I only looked unconventional during the drinks beforehand: no one could see the skirt when I was sitting down. (And no one could assess my choice of hosiery, though they could see the nail varnish!)

I learned two useful lessons: (1) never try to do up buttons until you are ABSOLUTELY sure that the nail varnish is COMPLETELY dry; (2) you can get purple nail varnish out of a white shirt collar pretty well, but you need an acetone-based remover: propylene carbonate will not cut it.

Great minds think alike! I too would just love to take an evening gown for a spin. That would be awesome, and I know I’d look sensational in it!

[crfriend]

Well, we have arrived. Even our master barista has been muzzled.

Hilariously that's not even my opinion on the man's behaviour -- it was a clinical diagnosis based on a professional's observation. My opinion is quite a lot more sarcastic that happens to touch on the behaviours in question. Quizzed on my opinion, I'll be candid with it -- and how it was derived -- and it usually leaves folks in fits of laughter as I zero in on what the behaviours indicate and what the driving factors likely are.

With the individual in question, we may speaketh his name only if done so in high praise.

That's the problem with muzzling the opposition. Note also that I did not use any names in my initial remarks.

So, I've officially been "cancelled". I'm in the process of making up my mind whether to stick around or not.

Free discussion of politics is encouraged in a free society, under tyranny the tongue is chained.

It's not just encouraged -- it's vital. With no exchange of ideas, opinions, and outlooks we have no rudders in the water and drift aimlessly.

I understand why it's discouraged here. We live in challenging times, regressive times, and emotions are running very hot. But isn't it a shame, when we can't even call out an observation of a person's characteristics that clearly seem to fit a certain definition?

Rather interesting is that I hold tacit license to speak politics with anyone at most of the establishments I hang out in. This is because the barkeeps know the way I approach things. I stick to policies and observable characteristics and tend to avoid excessive stereotyping and deliberately incendiary language -- and know how to de-escalate "situations".

The observation was not in error, and yet, to speak it aloud must be restrained. Why is everyone so afraid of this man?

It's a by-product of "The Cult of The Leader" and we have plenty of historical examples to go with. It's a dangerous and sometimes lethal path to follow.

We have crowned an Emperor.

Again, and likely this time for the rest of his life.

[moonshadow]

The observation was not in error, and yet, to speak it aloud must be restrained. Why is everyone so afraid of this man?

It's a by-product of "The Cult of The Leader" and we have plenty of historical examples to go with. It's a dangerous and sometimes lethal path to follow.

Back in 2008, when the economy tanked, me and those I worked with sat in a meeting with the owner of the company I worked for. It was a difficult year for everyone, including the one that signed my paycheck. The meeting started off grim until the owner told us of a brief exchange he had with another service man in eastern Virginia....

He was doing very well despite the recession. When my boss asked what the secret was for his success during these trying times, he response was something I have invoked many times when times seemed hard...

He said [regarding the economic situation] "I choose not to participate".

So I have resolved to follow this guidance once more... I "choose not to participate".

Why should I? What can I do about it? Nothing, that's what. The world is ugly, and I'm simply not going to stoop to that level. I choose not to participate.

In 2024 I will pay more in taxes than a full time worker making federal minimum wage makes in a year, and that's just federal income taxes. It doesn't count the local taxes I pay. I've paid my dues to this country, I deserve to be left alone... I choose not to participate.

I am not on any "gender spectrum", I am not in any special interest group, I'm just me... a guy who works, pays his rent on time, keeps the lights on and food on the table, let people make their assumptions.... I choose not to participate.

I haven't seen a single "news" clip, article, or story since early November, and I don't have the urge to start now... I choose not to participate.

I haven't been to a medical practitioner in over a year, and I won't go unless I'm in tremendous pain... I choose not to participate.

God knows I have enough problems of my own, I don't need to worry about what's going down outside of my front door... I choose not to participate.

It's hard to watch something I was raised to cherish become destroyed, but... such is life I suppose. Circle of life and all that...

Maybe tomorrow will be better, maybe it wont. I'll cross that bridge if I need to... or not. Maybe I'll just avoid the bridge all together, wade through the water and let the current take me where it wants.

Everybody crosses the bridge... I'll swim to the other side... I choose not to participate.

[crfriend]

Back in 2008, when the economy tanked, me and those I worked with sat in a meeting with the owner of the company I worked for. It was a difficult year for everyone, including the one that signed my paycheck. The meeting started off grim until the owner told us of a brief exchange he had with another service man in eastern Virginia....

He was doing very well despite the recession. When my boss asked what the secret was for his success during these trying times, he response was something I have invoked many times when times seemed hard...

He said [regarding the economic situation] "I choose not to participate".

So I have resolved to follow this guidance once more... I "choose not to participate".

That's remarkably akin to the proverbial ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

Whether we like it or not, we are all subject to what are known as "externalities" that happen whether we "choose to participate" or not. These include things like the car you don''t see in time that mows you down, falling due to a stray bullet somewhere, or getting cut down financially to make some billionaire more rich.

I pay more in tax than the current president-elect -- because I never inherited (and blew) a billion-dollar trust fund (at which point his daddy's accountants had to step in to keep a bad situation from getting worse, and found a gem of a codicil in the tax codes that guarantees that little Donny will never pay a cent in federal tax again). For that matter, I likely pay more than Elon Musk. Why? Because I'm "little people" and "little people" do not have a say in how things are run any longer. Our voices are either muted or cancelled. Little people do not matter.

Why should I? What can I do about it? Nothing, that's what. The world is ugly, and I'm simply not going to stoop to that level. I choose not to participate.

I can understand and even sympathise with that thinking, but it's just self-delusional. An act of someone who has lost all hope.

[skirted84]

Narcissists crave attention.

My goal is to go skirted WITHOUT gaining attention. Something I am increasingly seeing though don't believe it will ever be a non issue. Just like women can still get unwanted attention based on clothing.

Answer the question?

[crfriend]

Answer the question?

Normal folks do not crave attention, so there's your answer. Most guys who desire to wear skirts do not desire "attention" at all, but to just simply be themselves.

Clinical-grade narcissism is quite rare in the wild which is why it gets a clinical diagnosis.

[Kirbstone]

One sees so many photos nowadays of people taking selfies with their phones. I consider that exercise blatant narcissm.

Tom