Susie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 12:55 pm
The sheer audacity to suggest that you know what 50% of the population of this planet thinks is breath-taking.
This is why I distinguish between women, and feminism. Feminism does not speak for all women, despite what many seem to think. And attacking the ideology is not attacking women, even if many hold to it's beliefs. I work hard to make the distinction, but even I mess up sometimes.
I know that part wasn't in response to what I wrote, but I think it needs to be clarified regardless, if we want to keep things civil.
Susie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 12:55 pm
Feminism has demanded that women get all the perceived perks that men do, without any of the burdens. The privileges without the responsibility.
This is
NOT what feminisim is about,
If you truly believe this you need to take a good look at the news from around the world from several sources, not just the ones that agree with your personal point of view.
It's not what feminism
claims to be about, but if you look at what it has actually wrought, that's exactly what it really is, at least here in the West. If you look around the world, you find cultures with other problems, not the feminism we are dealing with.
But those cultures tend to at least balance the level of privilege with the level of responsibility. Whether that is men taking more of both, or certain classes of people taking more of both, in some ways that's better than giving one group a bunch of privilege without a corresponding level of responsibility. And a lot of the "privileges" in question are actually the tools and authority needed to carry out the responsibilities.
I do NOT want to take things away from women (or men for that matter). I want to see a better balance. If women want more power and privilege, I'm fine with that, so long as they take on the corresponding responsibilities as well. Equal responsibilities with the equal privileges.
In some ways, this is just like clothes, in reverse. Some seem to think that if men start wearing skirts and dresses, women will somehow lose something. They won't. But the men may need to learn how to move in them, what goes with what, and so on. In other words, take on the responsibility that comes with this new privilege. Most of the men here seem to get that, or learn it quick. There is a ton of discussion on this site of how skirt wearing requires changes in behavior, has a learning curve putting together outfits with those new possibilities, and so on. I've had to study and practice to make it work! It's something I'll gladly do, and which can be it's own reward, but it's a responsibility that goes with the privilege. One we need to shoulder if we are to be taken seriously.
And with kilts, the learning curve is even steeper in some ways, with all the history, tradition, and accompanying accessories. The serious, old-school kilt folks seem to be bothered by the new folks who want to put their own spin on things. And on some level, that may be what this article is really about: whether the rising surge of kilt wearers are really looking to "keep the old ways" and why, or if something else is going on. To some, if you aren't wearing the full regalia, you aren't taking on the responsibility that goes with the privilege of wearing The Kilt™. But for kilts to be something more than ceremonial attire, that attitude needs to change.
I am fine with men's skirts ending up being a different category with different styles from women's. But I don't think the kilt, with all its baggage, will cut it. And until men wearing skirts more broadly really catches on, skirts made explicitly for men will be few and far between, not to mention expensive. Fortunately, women's skirts come in a near infinite number of styles, including more than a few that can be easily re-appropriated by and for men. And we can and should study and borrow from the most widely recognized and accepted men's skirt (in the West) as we seek to make skirts a normal part of menswear. At the same time we need to learn from womenswear as well.
Susie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 12:55 pm
However, this is not the time or the place for this discussion and I will not hi-jack Stevie's thread to do so.
It took me longer than I meant to, but I think I showed above why I didn't think this was a hijack of the thread at all. The author of the article seems to be noting that the very sort of issues that I pointed out above surrounding the finer points of kilt wearing are both hobbling the kilt and acting as a crutch. The traditional baggage has preserved the kilt, but also kept it from growing, from becoming a common and modern men's garment.
The title of the article seems to imply kilt wearers are closeted crossdressers or something, but the author seems sympathetic to our cause. (Sometimes article headlines are written by someone other than the author of the piece.) Rereading it, I'm still not sure what the takeaway was supposed to be other than kilt wearing being a minefield of baggage. The comments seem to mostly be calling out the author for getting things slightly wrong, and arguing over the details, thereby reinforcing that point.
Once again, you can't call it out...
