Overly Flamboyant Outfits Detrimental to Mainstreaming MIS?

[Barleymower]

Meetings are good for the sanity of MIS and perhaps family unity. But does not further the cause.

I think Stevie is suggesting the news articles - describing "regular blokes" - wearing skirted outfits - helps further the cause.

Absolutely Coder, news articles by genuine MIS are fantastic and massive for MIS. Stevie I'm not suggesting that you havn't furthered the cause. You are almost a founding father for MIS. Unflinching and determined are words I would use.

I'll rephrase. How do "we" further the cause?

We have established through men like Coder and Stevie that skirt wearing does not lead to a lynch mob. Life carries on as normal, people get used to the change and the skirt wearing man is part of the community.

I feel it's not enough for us to individually go forth skirted on our own. One man on his own can do nothing it takes a combined effort. I don't accept we are too small and insignificant achieve anything. I don't accept that all non skirt wearing men don't give a hoot about clothes and are happy as pigs in dull boring clothes.

[Faldaguy]

Meetings are good for the sanity of MIS and perhaps family unity. But does not further the cause.

I feel it's not enough for us to individually go forth skirted on our own. One man on his own can do nothing it takes a combined effort. I don't accept we are too small and insignificant achieve anything.

I don't accept that all non skirt wearing men don't give a hoot about clothes and are happy as pigs in dull boring clothes.

I love this last line, thanks for the chuckle.

I certainly have not found that my skirting has had much impact -- if any, it may have brought a few more skirts to the venues I regularly attend, but on the women! No men have joined me, although a few have said they've worn skirts in other places/times -- but not taken it up in any observable way I have witnessed.

Meetings in some ways, to me, feel more like saying "look, I'm one of these oddballs" than rallying for something that few think of as a cause. Maybe if such Meetings made declarative statements about the virtues of MIS, it might be useful. No doubt a group of MIS gets a bit more attention than we do wandering down the street alone, and thus perhaps sparks useful dialogue? Maybe there are some parallels to Gay Pride parades of the past -- rare, lightly attended; however, as they grew to regular massive publicly announced events, the media and populous started to pay attention -- progress was made for acceptance, and more LGBT.... folk came out. Might it be MIS's needs to do more than Meet -- but to proclaim as well?

[r1g0r]

I would suppose that's probably true.
However, the perspective is never going to be both personalized AND objective.
What's ridiculously flamboyant to one person is going to be mildly humorous or arousing to another.

[Dust]

To answer the original question - I don't think a flamboyant outfit in isolation is a big deal, especially when that outfit is worn with a GENUINE approach to fashion/style and honesty of the wearer. I think things like drag do not help our cause, they send mixed messages and draw the wrong associations with what I think the goals of this site are. Defining that line - well I think it should be fairly easy to do.

Well said. If we are wearing what we want and just exploring fashion within the realm of that, many people tend to accept that. They may think we look ridiculous, but I've thought the same about some guys who were in male suits in odd colors or cuts.* Eye of the beholder, and all that. I think if our genuine intention is to expand male fashion, rather than to be sexy or proactive, that will be clear to many, if not most, folks, even if they don't necessarily like the look.

I think some outfits tend to cross over into costume. (I think the Brits have another term for this.) Drag is a fine example. Even older forms of the kilt (or simply cheap poorly made ones) can fall into this. I try to keep from looking like I'm dressed for Halloween or a convention or what have you, because I want my attire to look like reasonable normal clothing for a normal day (or the event in question).

The aforementioned confidence can help move an outfit back towards the normal side of the fuzzy wide lines of ridiculousness and costume. But some stuff like drag (which is essentially a walking caricature of a woman) are firmly planted on the costume side of things. But if a woman dressed this way she would be looked at as strange as well.

There's a lot of "look at me" type outfits at pride parades and such that are intentionally provocative, that no one would be wearing in public, and clearly fall on the adult bedroom side of another, probably less wide and fuzzy line.


*And the ones who wear these kinds of suits and other outfits with the confidence to pull them back to the reasonable daily attire side of the "costume line" have much the same admiration and thanks as the folks doing it here with skirts.

[Coder]

I think some outfits tend to cross over into costume. ... I try to keep from looking like I'm dressed for Halloween or a convention or what have you, because I want my attire to look like reasonable normal clothing for a normal day (or the event in question).

LOL - so there was this one time... May 20th of this year - and documented - where my outfit was veering a bit towards "Convention" wear. I did get a compliment on my shirt (which was a dress, but I digress) and my leaf bag - but I was inching my way towards ren-faire wear. However, it was fun and I wouldn't mind throwing a bit of Middle Earth in my daily life. I do like the medieval sort of aesthetic - but it's not something one can generally go to work in.

[Dust]

Meetings in some ways, to me, feel more like saying "look, I'm one of these oddballs" than rallying for something that few think of as a cause. Maybe if such Meetings made declarative statements about the virtues of MIS, it might be useful. No doubt a group of MIS gets a bit more attention than we do wandering down the street alone, and thus perhaps sparks useful dialogue? Maybe there are some parallels to Gay Pride parades of the past -- rare, lightly attended; however, as they grew to regular massive publicly announced events, the media and populous started to pay attention -- progress was made for acceptance, and more LGBT.... folk came out. Might it be MIS's needs to do more than Meet -- but to proclaim as well?

The pride parallel is interesting.

The earliest pride parades were simply a few smartly dressed male couples, walking down the street, hand in hand. That was it. There was absolutely nothing else provocative about it, and intentionally so.

There were also disagreements at some slightly later ones about which more controversial groups would be allowed to march. They policed their own for a while, despite creating some turmoil behind the scenes.

Only once they were making headway did the in your face, over the top stuff really set in, as far as I know.

I think this and messaging control were part of the reason they were successful. Agree with their cause or not, we could probably learn from them.

There have already been marches for other men's issues, father's rights and judicial system stuff mostly. There is also a diverse subset of the internet devoted to men's issues, but clothing rarely comes up, because compared to suicide, bias in the court system, boys falling behind in school, child alienation, and the like, clothing seems like a minor issue.

I've long thought that clothing was the most visible issue men face, even if not the most serious. And I've seen the suggestion before of a kilted march for men's issues. I believe a rare few in the men's movement have taken to wearing kilts, but there have been some.

[LiuBang]

I think we would do best if we looked at traditional men's skirts and riffed off that look. For example, try riffing off the Fijian sulu. Style it like how they do in Fiji. Buy a plain, straight, midi-length dark blue/grey skirt and wear it with a suit on top. Maybe a T-shirt or button up shirt on top for a more casual look. And if you wear it with men's sandals, the whole look will be much more accepted than if you wear the skirt with high heels.

[Mouse]

And if you wear it with men's sandals, the whole look will be much more accepted than if you wear the skirt with high heels.

Liu bang, I think you are missing the point of why some of us dress the way we do. For me, the 5 year old kid, didn’t just want the skirt, he wanted the earrings, the boots and shoes, the nails, the hair, the Lycra…..

Where I am at the moment, I have most of what my 5 year old self wanted, the hair I can’t do much about, but the rest is mostly there. The crazy thing is, I have got to this place without medical intervention and with my relationship and family, still in place, and even my work is all on board with my style.

So I guess what I am saying is that I want complete clothing freedom, not just the skirt bit.

[Warren]

I love the idea of trying to create rules for breaking the rules

For me anything legal and decent is OK.

OTT is great occasionally!

The flamboyant folk are doing you a massive favour, liken it to a fancy sports car in the supermarket car park, everybody looks at the Lamborghini and so fails to notice your bland everyday car.

[Barleymower]

I love the idea of trying to create rules for breaking the rules

For me anything legal and decent is OK.

OTT is great occasionally!

The flamboyant folk are doing you a massive favour, liken it to a fancy sports car in the supermarket car park, everybody looks at the Lamborghini and so fails to notice your bland everyday car.

While everyone is staring at the Lamborghini the Lotus Carlton slips quietly by.

[STEVIE]

I think we would do best if we looked at traditional men's skirts and riffed off that look. For example, try riffing off the Fijian sulu. Style it like how they do in Fiji. Buy a plain, straight, midi-length dark blue/grey skirt and wear it with a suit on top. Maybe a T-shirt or button up shirt on top for a more casual look. And if you wear it with men's sandals, the whole look will be much more accepted than if you wear the skirt with high heels.

Here's another point LiuBang,
Be very clear on this, there is no such thing as a traditional man's skirt!
The garments which you refer to are for men, skirts as a generic term are accepted as exclusively female garments.
Actually, having had a chance to reflect on the thread title, this is a complete and utter waste of time.
There is never going to be mainstream anything for men in the skirt and dress stakes so forget it and just do as you damned well please.
If you, or anyone disagrees, knock yourselves out, I have said all that I can or will.
Steve

[Barleymower]

I get what Luibang is trying to do.
Correct me please if wrong:
you want to find something skirtwise which will be acceptable male garment. One that will be picked up by average Joe and bunged on like a pair of jeans.

That would be great, it really would.

There are however some fields, rivers, mountains and lava to cross to get there.
1. Currently in the western would, the one we live in, the only skirt available to men is the kilt and that can be a bit suspect.
2. Outside of the kilt you can get away with wrapping a towel around your waiste and that's about it.
3. The skirt has become the epitome of womanhood, a flag that shouts "I'm female".

It isn't of course, it's just a rag but in the minds of many folk it means a whole lot more. For some people putting one on is to surrender your manhood, you might as well leave it at home in a pretty little box.

On the other side, it takes a brave heart to put one on as a man and go out there and saying "I won't be told".
Trouble is that brave man is mistaken for the TG woman and people just say "sure sweetie".

Whatever anyone says or thinks (which is no-ones business) there is no mistaking a man in a skirt. He doesn't look like anything else. He doesn't look gay, he doesn't look SD, TG or like a woman.

My advice is to wear what you want and be happy that you (unlike many others) have the nerve to do it.

[moonshadow]

Actually, having had a chance to reflect on the thread title, this is a complete and utter waste of time.
There is never going to be mainstream anything for men in the skirt and dress stakes so forget it and just do as you damned well please.

Hear hear!

I don't give a crap if skirts are mainstream for men or not. The last thing I want is more rules regarding what I should and shouldn't be wearing from the MIS group.

It's like some people just have to have that societal validation before they can wear a skirt comfortably. Well society can take their validation and shove it. I don't care for "society" or it's damned arbitrary rules.

As for what the average Joe does... he can jump off a bridge for all I care. He's probably an asshole anyway.

[Barleymower]

I don't give a crap if skirts are mainstream for men or not. The last thing I want is more rules regarding what I should and shouldn't be wearing from the MIS group.

Really? If that's the case why is this MIS goup so fixated on just straight men in skirts?
There are men on this forum who openly gay. There are men who are trans. There are men who are NB and probably a few SD's as a cherry on top. Yep they are all here posting away and if they saying anything about anything other than super straight MIS there's gasps all around like somebody wee'd on the strawberries.

There are plenty of rules here, it's not a lot different from the outside world.

[moonshadow]

Yep they are all here posting away and if they saying anything about anything other than super straight MIS there's gasps all around like somebody wee'd on the strawberries.

Not from me. I don't care what other people do or how they live their life.

But it's always been this way and probably always will be.

"Rules for thee, not for me".