"Women Care About Personality, not Looks"

[LiuBang]

Conventional wisdom tells us that when looking for a mate, women care about personality first, a steady salary second, and looks dead last. As in perhaps not caring about looks at all. As in choosing the bald guy with a heart of gold over the handsome but rude guy.

Good. Then women shouldn't care what we wear. We should be able to wear skirts, because they don't care how we look. It's women who have to be careful with what they wear, because us men care far more about looks than anything. Right? Right?

[crfriend]

Conventional wisdom tells us that when looking for a mate, women care about personality first, a steady salary second, and looks dead last. As in perhaps not caring about looks at all. As in choosing the bald guy with a heart of gold over the handsome but rude guy.

First and foremost, the woman is looking for a guy who can "provide" for her so she doesn't have to worry about that any longer. Little else matters. The MAN MUST be the PROVIDER. Full stop. Yes, it's that cold for the most part.

Good. Then women shouldn't care what we wear. We should be able to wear skirts, because they don't care how we look. It's women who have to be careful with what they wear, because us men care far more about looks than anything. Right? Right?

So long as the primary is met (provider), everything else lands in the "bucket of opportunity", thus preferences for nice looks, not too slovenly [0], sufficiently polite, reasonably intelligent but not too intelligent [1], &c.


[0] But not too neat -- he might be on a "spectrum" which could endanger the "provider" status (the primary driver). The mode of provision doesn't matter much, so long as it's stable and meets the woman's criteria.
[1] Same reason as above. If he's "too intelligent" he's going to catch on to the ruse and realise he's getting used. Note that most women shy away from guys with "outside the box" (more than about 1 1/2 standard deviations in IQ) intelligence.

[STEVIE]

If the "look", includes a skirt, they most certainly care, and it's not guaranteed positive.
For all the woman who will fully support and accept a skirted guy, there are a hell of a lot more who will not!
Steve.

[jamie001]

There are many exceptions to the concepts that were stated here regarding a man being a “provider”. Women have come a long way in the workforce. I work for one of the world’s largest tech companies in a technical position that is equivalent to a director. There are many women in the company that are above that level and certainly do not need a man as a provider. They are looking for intelligence and compatibility, and someone that can accept a very successful women without feeling demeaned.

[Grok]

I recall posting this before, but....

I think women scrutinize men through a series of filters. The first filter concerns appearance, as in does the man conform to the conventions of masculinity? Does his appearance fit into the Man Box?

I think for many women, probably most (the over whelming majority?), he had better conform. Or she won't take a chance on him.

Immediate rejection.

The vast majority of men conform, so pass the first filter. And I have to point out, some members have described their difficulties with women when they don't conform.

In recent years there have been efforts to push the boundaries by a few men-MIS, jewelry, nail polish, etc. The hope is that the range of the acceptable will be expanded a bit. I think there is a chance if society (half of which are women) come to view the changes as okay.

[Myopic Bookworm]

There are many exceptions to the concepts that were stated here regarding a man being a “provider”. Women have come a long way in the workforce. I work for one of the world’s largest tech companies in a technical position that is equivalent to a director. There are many women in the company that are above that level and certainly do not need a man as a provider. They are looking for intelligence and compatibility, and someone that can accept a very successful women without feeling demeaned.

I agree: some people in the US may still think they're living in the 1950s, but my wife was looking for an intelligent companion, not a provider. We had a deal that whoever had the larger salary when we started a family would be the one who stayed working full-time while the other one went part-time to look after the kids. Her salary overtook mine after a couple of years, and so I was the one that went part-time. She has been the main "provider" for a couple of decades now, and neither of us has any problem with that.

And she's more than half Scottish, so she has no problem with kilts.

[DrFishnets]

I’ve not had much luck when it comes to women. I see myself as a nice friendly guy but I am completely shy and not very assertive when among people especially the opposite sex. I have had not many relationships and I had one bad experience with a woman who was a complete ***** and used me and she was very vindictive and because of my shyness and lack of assertiveness I allowed it to happen. Anyway she dumped me after a couple of days once she got what she wanted which lead me into anxiety and depression.

I don’t think being handsome,nice and friendly and caring is enough for a lot of women. Women look for men who are confident and full of wit and who will provide for them financially and stand up for themselves. Fortunately, a few month after the experiences with that horrible woman I met my partner and she is a wonderful woman. The relationship isn’t the usual relationship where the man is the provider. We both provide for each other. As a bonus she totally accepts me wearing skirts, dresses and tights and she loves seeing me wearing them. We sometimes have dressing up nights where I dress to the nines as cosplay St Trinians or French maid and we both have a good laugh. She said she was proud of me when she seen me finally dress in skirts and dresses when going out shopping.

[Barleymower]

Good for you DRF. I hope you have many years of happiness together.

[denimini]

It is not helpful to generalise too much about these things although I am sure that many women don't go for just looks ............ from what I have seen.
I do believe that being yourself will attract people who like you for who you are, so if you wear skirts you will attract a confident, interesting nonconforming person.
I like DrFishnets story which ends up with a nice understanding relationship.

[LiuBang]

Back to the topic. There are several premises that come out of the mouths of the same people, yet they seem contradictory:

Premise 1: "Women care about personality, not looks, while men care about looks, not personality."
Conclusion 1: If that's true, then women should be the ones who are much more scrutinized in outfit choice, and therefore have far fewer clothing choices.
Reality 1: Men have fewer clothing choices than women.

Premise 2: "Men do not care about what outfit a women is wearing."
Conclusion 2: If men care about looks, but do not care what outfit a woman is wearing, then the "looks" men care about is all about the physical (curves, etc.) and nothing about fashion.
Reality 2: This (seems?) to be correct

Premise 3: "Women won't date a man in a skirt."
Conclusion 3: If women do not care about looks but care about pesonality then skirt-wearing is primarily not about looks but about personality.
Reality 3: This (seems?) to be correct

[crfriend]

Reality 2: Men care about what outfit a woman is wearing but don't comment because they'll be ignored or derided/insulted by the woman in question. So men just shut up.

[DrFishnets]

Reality 2: Men care about what outfit a woman is wearing but don't comment because they'll be ignored or derided/insulted by the woman in question. So men just shut up.

It’s funny you should mention that because today I got my first compliment in a skirt and it was from a young attractive woman. I was flattered when she told me that she likes what I’m wearing. Anyway, I thought to myself that if it was the other way about and I complimented what she was wearing would she be equally flattered or would she feel awkward as a lot of women find men complimenting their looks and what they are wearing as threatening but when women compliment men it’s a different story.

[jamie001]

It’s funny you should mention that because today I got my first compliment in a skirt and it was from a young attractive woman. I was flattered when she told me that she likes what I’m wearing. Anyway, I thought to myself that if it was the other way about and I complimented what she was wearing would she be equally flattered or would she feel awkward as a lot of women find men complimenting their looks and what they are wearing as threatening but when women compliment men it’s a different story.

Many random women over the years have commented on the skirts and outfits that I wear while standing in the checkout line at the supermarket. On the other hand, even if I am wearing a skirt, I will never compliment a random woman for fear that she will think I am a pervert trying to hit on her. Therefore, when skirt wearing, I just go about my normal business.

[TSH]

Back to the topic. There are several premises that come out of the mouths of the same people, yet they seem contradictory:

Is it really surprising people, more often than not, aren't true to their word? Their own values? This is observed in many avenues of life. An activist opposed to war can still act violently in the name of their cause. A salesman advertising his wares might be conning you. A family member who goes on about how much they love and respect a fellow relative might scold them for who they are as an individual. People are terrible when it comes to self-reflection, which is why we aren't making as much as progress as we should have.

[STEVIE]

More verbiage proving little and changing nothing.
Steve.