Don't worry, most people know we're not trans

[STEVIE]

I don't worry on the basis that I don't care.
I cannot really influence the thoughts of others, I have enough trouble with my own.
Steve.

[Barleymower]

I cannot really influence the thoughts of others, I have enough trouble with my own.
Steve.

My son and I were discussing what other people think and in so asked my daughter this. "Women don't care wether it's masculine or feminine or what men think"
Absolutely not she said.
"Then why if someone said you outfit looked ok would you immediately want to change?"

Apparently half nice comments is code for "that looks terrible". Gendered clothes are not an issue. Style is!

It just goes to show how badly men are dressed! The whole male look is horrible to them. They just pick a few items for their own expansive wardrobes.

[Mouse]

My son and I were discussing what other people think and in so asked my daughter this. "Women don't care wether it's masculine or feminine or what men think"
Absolutely not she said.
"Then why if someone said you outfit looked ok would you immediately want to change?"
Apparently half nice comments is code for "that looks terrible". Gendered clothes are not an issue. Style is!
It just goes to show how badly men are dressed! The whole male look is horrible to them. They just pick a few items for their own expansive wardrobes.

I tend to agree with the notion that women are more interested in clothes so they dress better.

However, from a mere male observer looking for interesting female clothes I may want to copy, I have to tell you the pickings are slim. The great majority of females on an average tube train are just as badly dressed as the men. I find it comical and sad that many good-looking women are dressed so badly. I know there may be many reasons from lack of money to not wanting to draw attention to any number of other reasons but the fact remain that IMHO the average woman and man on the Piccadilly line are all boring.

[Barleymower]

You are right of course Mouse. Women are just as badly dressed as men. I had the blinkered view of my daughters love of clothes.
Mostly I see women dressed in jeans or leggings. They seem to live in fear of judgement from other women, "Who does she think she is?' etc. I think this is the reason women baulk when confronted by a skirted man. They worried what others will say and how it will reflect on them. It all seems to come down to feeling of entitlement or standing within the community.
Knowing this makes it easier for me. I'm rot 7 years old and looking for permission to wear my own choice of clothes.

[jamie001]

I believe that the average Joe is badly dressed because of what options are available to them! Just drab shlt that has been around for the past 100 years. If you watch a newscast from the early days of television in the late 1940’s, you will see that men today are dressed in exactly the same clothing. Nothing has changed. Men do not care about fashion because there is no such thing as men’s fashion. Combined with the fact that if any man strays from the herd mindset regarding fashion, is immediately ridiculed and called-out regarding his choice and also labeled as a homosexual. I still can’t figure out how what you wear defines your sexuality. Unfortunately this stereotype of the flaming gay man is perpetuated by Hollywood at every possible opportunity. Also, the pride parades are very harmful to us with all of the flaming gay men on parade that bear no resemblance to us men in skirts and other women’s attire. I wish there was some way that we could stop the pride parades because every time one of them occurs, we lose years of progress.

[LiuBang]

In 13 years of publicly invading the society labelled woman's wardrobe I have only been asked once as to how I want to be identified and that was three weeks back.

Exactly. With trans women becoming increasingly common, cisgendered men will become increasingly reluctant to try wearing skirts. They'll be afraid of being mistaken as trans.

[jamie001]

In 13 years of publicly invading the society labelled woman's wardrobe I have only been asked once as to how I want to be identified and that was three weeks back.

Exactly. With trans women becoming increasingly common, cisgendered men will become increasingly reluctant to try wearing skirts. They'll be afraid of being mistaken as trans.

I disagree. There is a big difference. I am a GNC Gender Non-conforming Male and I do not attempt to change my appearance to deceive folks into believing that I am female. I am just a feminine male and make no such attempt. A trans woman makes every effort to change her appearance to deceive folks into believing that she is female. We really need to understand these distinctions.

[moonshadow]

With trans women becoming increasingly common,

They're not.

They'll be afraid of being mistaken as trans.

They won't.

cisgendered men will become increasingly reluctant to try wearing skirts.

Their problem.

[TheSkirtedMan]

With regards perception of all men in skirts are Trans, for me that is not a problem. People think what they want even if facts stare them in the face. I have not noticed any increase in my usual expected looks, stares and finger pointing. Very, very small minority look and stare and quite honestly without real certainty they could be looking, talking in a positive way. It's the body language that clearly indicates what they think. Standing there momentarily and looking does not mean negativity. Also, all on here will look at others momentarily, often disagree but would not say anything at the time or make that other feel uncomfortable.

The odd direct challenge for me is rare, about 5 times in 13 years as said before and I give what I receive.

I am well accepted in many many areas and my role at two historic Houses (2 from 2024) where I present guided tours as well is good advertising. Not everyone will like me even if they do not think I am Trans for a host of reasons. Also Trans people have alot of support and friends even if friends are not Trans. I too feel the Pride marches do not portray a good message for men in skirts or even the LGBT community. If such discussion is raised in my presence many acknowledge the community but say certain sections of it bring the community into disrepute but then that is no different in other areas of society. As already said, only once have I been asked how I wish to be labelled and it was done politely and I did not receive it as challenge. Everywhere all take me as a man in a skirt. I use my name, do not hide my bald head and behave as a man. If my name is not known I get Sir, young man or a simple "excuse me" and they seek clarification not referencing skirt, clothing, labels. Apart from those few direct challenges! I do like the young man though!

If men in skirts are just that, go about the world as men, then if others wish to think we are Trans, so be it. As I have said some will believe what they want regardless of facts. If I am challenged I respond. If I am asked I answer, if I am embraced then I embrace. I have many who take me as me and I cannot be friends with all in the world and as is said, the world will be a boring place if we were all the same.

So I get on with my life as I want to do it. I avoid known problem areas, but then I would as a man in trousers. I have in person, usually in online forums made reference to women in mens clothing and male styles. Styles they want me to be in. I throw back into the arena all arguments against men in skirts and society plays into my hand with this. Many do not see the point but then society these days is selfish and narcissistic, unable to look beyond its nose end and there is nothing I can do about it.

[LiuBang]

I disagree. There is a big difference. I am a GNC Gender Non-conforming Male and I do not attempt to change my appearance to deceive folks into believing that I am female. I am just a feminine male and make no such attempt. A trans woman makes every effort to change her appearance to deceive folks into believing that she is female. We really need to understand these distinctions.

Agree about your point with trans women--being a trans woman is protected under free speech (with restrictions: if cis-men are not allowed to use the women's bathroom, then trans women should also not be allowed to use the women's bathroom, for instance). That's why trans-sexuality is against my value system--like you said, it's deception, and I find lying unethical. And it's a completely different matter for a cis-man to wear a skirt--he looks just as masculine in a skirt as he does in pants.

[moonshadow]

I don't think it's deception. And if this thread is going to turn into a bunch of trans-bashing then count me out.

[Grok]

I believe that the average Joe is badly dressed because of what options are available to them! Just drab shlt that has been around for the past 100 years. If you watch a newscast from the early days of television in the late 1940’s, you will see that men today are dressed in exactly the same clothing. Nothing has changed.

"Nothing has changed." Except, since the 1940s, a tendency towards informality.

In general...the clothing assigned to men has been so dull that, with very few exceptions, there is little more than he can aspire to beyond being presentable.

[Elisabetta]

I don't think it's deception. And if this thread is going to turn into a bunch of trans-bashing then count me out.

I agree! Maybe it's time to also take some time away from the forums and refresh your mind. What I always do when I read stuff about bashing people especially if it's something that means a lot to me.

[jamie001]

Agree about your point with trans women--being a trans woman is protected under free speech (with restrictions: if cis-men are not allowed to use the women's bathroom, then trans women should also not be allowed to use the women's bathroom, for instance). That's why trans-sexuality is against my value system--like you said, it's deception, and I find lying unethical. And it's a completely different matter for a cis-man to wear a skirt--he looks just as masculine in a skirt as he does in pants.

There. are some of us that like myself that are attempting to appear as a feminine male and do not want to look like a typical masculine dude. Some of us wear heels, nails polish, and hair styles along with our skirts that are considered feminine because we want to add feminine flare to our look while not attempting to deceive that we are women. We just want to be feminine males (only speaking for myself). Men have been denied the right to be feminine, while women are actively encouraged to embrace the masculine. That is the problem. I also work in the tech industry. it seems that there may be many of us in the tech industry.

[Grok]

Band uniforms. One of the very few exceptions. A relic from the past that includes bright colors and a bit of bling.

Other exceptions would include some dress military uniforms. Some tuxedos. The traditional kilt, with associated regalia.