Mississipi School Discriminate Transgender Girl

[STEVIE]

Like it or not - we don’t all get “our own truth”. There is but one truth in every conversation. Present however you want, live as you wish, but don’t expect me to accept who you pretend to be if you couldn’t accept who you are.

I am happy to say that I don't really give a damn about what you choose to reject or accept.
I learned how to cope with that attitude a long time ago.
Sadly, not everyone has that luxury, I hope you never have reason to regret that statement.
For your information, I do not "pretend" to be anything other than what I am and who I am.
Steve.

[Barleymower]

There is no such thing as the truth. Take any situation , pick it apart and new threads appear. The threads have threads of there own and the truth disappears down a rabbit hole. Add in a bad interpretation and some down right lies and the truth is lost forever.

I read somewhere that ancient man had no laws, instead elders sat together and discussed a problem and decided what to do. That sounds like as good a method as any.

Going back to Layne's comment:
"Present however you want, live as you wish, but don’t expect me to accept who you pretend to be if you couldn’t accept who you are." There's a lot of people out there who are lost in themselves, so they have to find a way to exist. They "pretend". Don't dispise them for finding a way to exist. Maybe they need your help?

If you took a bunch of girls and boys and raised them without influencing them, just let them be themselves. What would the outcome be? How close would that mini society resemble our own? It's fair to say that our own society is built on pretence.

[Layne]

There is but one truth in every conversation

Not true. You'll never find truth when two politicians have a conversation.

Your statement is flawed. There exists but one truth - even if 0/2 parties in a given discussion can or will state it.

[Layne]

Going back to Layne's comment:
"Present however you want, live as you wish, but don’t expect me to accept who you pretend to be if you couldn’t accept who you are." There's a lot of people out there who are lost in themselves, so they have to find a way to exist. They "pretend". Don't dispise them for finding a way to exist. Maybe they need your help?

If one can be convinced to believe the opposite of a scientific fact - what else can they be convinced to believe or do?

[Jim]

If one can be convinced to believe the opposite of a scientific fact - what else can they be convinced to believe or do?

Like too many arguments, on this subject people argue past one another because they are using different definitions of a word. I don't think anyone is believing the opposite of a fact, they just define the word in question differently--"girl" in this case.

[Layne]

If one can be convinced to believe the opposite of a scientific fact - what else can they be convinced to believe or do?

Like too many arguments, on this subject people argue past one another because they are using different definitions of a word. I don't think anyone is believing the opposite of a fact, they just define the word in question differently--"girl" in this case.

Why has this only of late become an issue? Is it really that difficult to identify a girl? When did it require an advanced degree to distinguish between a man and a woman?

Again, I genuinely respect your right to live and identify however you choose - but your choice absolutely can’t require me to deny that which is fact.

As I respond here, I’m watching video of yesterday’s senate hearing with Magistrate Judge Sarah Netburn; who recommended that William McClain, a 6’-2” biological male, admitted serial rapist, who now goes by July Justine Shelby - - be housed in a female prison. Despite the fact that William has full male genitalia, this judge determined that William was “sober and entirely a female”, the judge later changed her statement to “hormonally a female”.

We are to believe that these are intelligent adults having these conversations?

Once again, I’m forced to return to my belief that there exists but one truth.

(Note: I am not at all suggesting that in every instance I am right or that my understanding of the truth is the correct one - but that still only one truth can exist.)

[Myopic Bookworm]

The problem seems to lie not in identifying a girl or a boy, but in insisting that their biological sex absolutely requires all sorts of other irrelevant things, such as wearing particular styles of clothing, or cutting their hair a certain way, or playing certain sports and not others. If people weren't so damned authoritarian about how other people conduct themselves, there would be much less of a problem.

[Barleymower]

The problem seems to lie not in identifying a girl or a boy, but in insisting that their biological sex absolutely requires all sorts of other irrelevant things, such as wearing particular styles of clothing, or cutting their hair a certain way, or playing certain sports and not others. If people weren't so damned authoritarian about how other people conduct themselves, there would be much less of a problem.

What you have just said MB is key to the problem. Women and girls have been accepted as being able to anything men and boys can. It is not the same for men and boys and It is all enforced in a authoritarian manner.

The authoritarianism seems to be rooted in secondary schools. Primary schools are much more relaxed and accepting and as many people here point out: on the streets of the United Kingdom nobody cares how you identify.

[Ray]

Layne

This “there is only one truth” sounds like the sort of thing a religious lunatic would spout. I’m sure that’s not you, nor what you intend, but rhetoric that deals in absolutes isn’t a good way of engaging in conversation.

[Layne]

Layne

This “there is only one truth” sounds like the sort of thing a religious lunatic would spout. I’m sure that’s not you, nor what you intend, but rhetoric that deals in absolutes isn’t a good way of engaging in conversation.

As a scientist, the acknowledgment of fact or truth should never rely on rhetoric.

By all means, do enjoy the relatively short time we are here. Dress how makes you happy. Be the person that you want to be.

But don’t tell a small boy that he can be a girl if he chooses.

[FLbreezy]

But don’t tell a small boy that he can be a girl if he chooses.

It may not be a "choice". Around 2% of people worldwide may have some mix of genetic traits that present in ways that don't fit a strict 100% male/female definition: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/a ... 4-intersex

[moonshadow]

What you have just said MB is key to the problem. Women and girls have been accepted as being able to anything men and boys can. It is not the same for men and boys and It is all enforced in a authoritarian manner

Indeed, note that ALL of the trans bans in sports ONLY apply to transgender women/girls that play on female sports. The laws are specifically worded this way.

If you are a biological female you are encouraged to play on either side. In fact, not long ago I read an upbeat news article about a teenage cisgender girl "living her dreams" playing on a boys football team.

I'm not saying trans girls should play on girls teams nor vice versa, but this double standard kinda bugs me. Just another example of vagina privilege. If they're going to enforce this segregation based on sex THEN IT SHOULD APPLY TO BOTH SEXES!

Freedom for all or freedom for none... no special treatment!

[Layne]

But don’t tell a small boy that he can be a girl if he chooses.

It may not be a "choice". Around 2% of people worldwide may have some mix of genetic traits that present in ways that don't fit a strict 100% male/female definition: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/a ... 4-intersex

OK - I’ll absolutely yield to those extremely rare circumstances; but certainly you don’t think it’s relevant to the conversation at hand? Noteworthy: even individuals who are intersex are predominantly male or female.

The number of births with ambiguous genitals is in the range of 1:4,500–1:2,000 (0.02%–0.05%).

The number of births where the baby is intersex has been reported differently depending on who reports and which definition of intersex is used. Anne Fausto-Sterling and her book co-authors claim the prevalence of "nondimorphic sexual development" might be as high as 1.7%.

However, a response published by Leonard Sax reports this figure includes conditions such as late onset congenital adrenal hyperplasia and Klinefelter syndrome which most clinicians do not recognize as intersex; Sax states, "if the term intersex is to retain any meaning, the term should be restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female", stating the prevalence of intersex is about 0.018% (one in 5,500 births), about 100 times less than Fausto-Sterling's estimate.

This too I believe to be quite disturbing; words and their definitions have meaning. Changing the definition of a word to make your argument valid serves no purpose.

On any level - I personally find myself back at my old belief: live as you choose and be happy. Dress like you like (I do). Call yourself anything you want - but don’t expect that everyone should be forced to understand or accept a perceived reality that belongs to you.

I like to think that I understand and am ok with the fact that my right to dress as I want (or anything else) doesn’t supersede your right to accept it or not. We all like to be accepted - but it’s not required (at least for me).

[Barleymower]

Indeed, note that ALL of the trans bans in sports ONLY apply to transgender women/girls that play on female sports. The laws are specifically worded this way.

If you are a biological female you are encouraged to play on either side. In fact, not long ago I read an upbeat news article about a teenage cisgender girl "living her dreams" playing on a boys football team.

I'm not saying trans girls should play on girls teams nor vice versa, but this double standard kinda bugs me. Just another example of vagina privilege. If they're going to enforce this segregation based on sex THEN IT SHOULD APPLY TO BOTH SEXES!

Freedom for all or freedom for none... no special treatment!

I agree. Equality is not a one way street where a group fights for their cause. However worthy the cause it's still discrimination unless they work for all sides. Men in all their forms are being discriminated against. That's why (I think) we have the double standard.

Luckily we have a Scientist (Layne) here to teach us right from wrong.

[moonshadow]

Luckily we have a Scientist (Layne) here to teach us right from wrong.

Ha! Well, having a scientist in the membership roster never hurt!

On any level - I personally find myself back at my old belief: live as you choose and be happy. Dress like you like (I do). Call yourself anything you want - but don’t expect that everyone should be forced to understand or accept a perceived reality that belongs to you.

I can get behind this, and in fact, I pretty much live by this already. There are aspects to my own "gender identity" that I don't wear on my sleeve mainly for this reason... I don't feel like spending every waking minute of my life arguing with people.

In point of fact, my own view of gender seems to be contrary to those both on the right and left side of the issue, so I'm well accustomed to just holding the sentiments close to my chest.

One thing I hold publicly is that "sex" is absolute, and can easily be scientifically measured and determined. "Gender" seems more in line with philosophy, and thus puts it more in the neighborhood of religion. Thus I don't argue with people about my own gender identity for much the same reason I don't argue about religion.

-- Now I don't expect you [Layne] to agree with that, and that is certainly your right. Many people do indeed consider sex and gender to be one and the same. I just don't.... and that's my right.

Maybe gender is completely meaningless in the grand scheme of things, much like religion, but like it or not, it's all a part of our culture and it isn't going away just because we may not agree with certain beliefs or opinions on the matter.

We are what we are... maybe trans-people are crazy... but then again, aren't we all in some way or another?

But I do agree that nobody should be FORCED to acknowledge something they don't believe in. Nobody should be FORCED to say anything they don't want.

I choose to respect pronouns, but if somebody twisted my arm under penalty of law, I'd just be silent. I do at least have that right.

And I make this choice not because I'm all in on trans politics, in fact, I have yet to meet a trans person that I actually liked being around. But I will still abide their wishes because I aim to be respectful and to always "treat people how I'd want to be treated".