Will Skirts Ever be Mainstream for Men?

[LiuBang]

I am bearish on skirts being mainstream for men. For women, there's the argument that pants are necessary for safety for industrial/hard labor jobs. But there's no legitimate argument that men need to wear skirts to safely participate in industrial/hard labor jobs. Skirts are admittedly just for comfort and looks.

I also see men wearing skirts getting conflated with cross-dressing/transgenderism even more by conservatives today than 20 years ago. So the backlash against male skirt wearing is stronger than ever.

[timemeddler]

I also see men wearing skirts getting conflated with cross-dressing/transgenderism even more by conservatives today than 20 years ago. So the backlash against male skirt wearing is stronger than ever.

I don't know about that, 20 years ago there wouldn't have been many normal guys wearing them, so most of any backlash would have to be recent. More guys wearing them no= more whiners complaining.

[TSH]

I am bearish on skirts being mainstream for men. For women, there's the argument that pants are necessary for safety for industrial/hard labor jobs. But there's no legitimate argument that men need to wear skirts to safely participate in industrial/hard labor jobs. Skirts are admittedly just for comfort and looks.

The path for women in pants was far more deeper than just pants being "practical", which I'm sure everyone is already aware of. Pants aren't always "practical" though, and I'll argue skirts can actually be such — even more so than pants. For starters, it's just more "practical" (meaning it makes more sense) for men to wear skirts, because then men won't have to worry about any inseams. You're also missing that skirts tend to be more adaptable and are less likely to tear. Wearing what's more comfortable, which ties into my earlier point of the physiological reason skirts make sense, is in itself, more "practical" than just going by the norm of wearing pants, like most other men (though this can vary based on how much derision, should any mockery arises, when a men wears one, and how he'll respond to such attacks on his character because of it).

I also see men wearing skirts getting conflated with cross-dressing/transgenderism even more by conservatives today than 20 years ago. So the backlash against male skirt wearing is stronger than ever.

I know enough to know that this simply can't be true, and is more likely an example of a skewed experience. I'm not exactly a glass-half-full person. I don't want to foolishly set my expectations high, or even have them at all, but there has been progress, regardless how small it is, in the two decades that followed. This bashing conservatives have towards anything that doesn't conform to their own outdated values is nothing new. The backlash only seems "stronger" now because subversion individuals (like ourselves) are becoming more and more accepted into society, so the intolerance gets louder as a result.

[LiuBang]

The path for women in pants was far more deeper than just pants being "practical", which I'm sure everyone is already aware of. Pants aren't always "practical" though, and I'll argue skirts can actually be such — even more so than pants. For starters, it's just more "practical" (meaning it makes more sense) for men to wear skirts, because then men won't have to worry about any inseams. You're also missing that skirts tend to be more adaptable and are less likely to tear. Wearing what's more comfortable, which ties into my earlier point of the physiological reason skirts make sense, is in itself, more "practical" than just going by the norm of wearing pants, like most other men (though this can vary based on how much derision, should any mockery arises, when a men wears one, and how he'll respond to such attacks on his character because of it).

But it's true that pants can be justified on safety grounds while skirts can't. I've interned at a rocket engine test engineering facility. Everyone was required to wear long pants, including the (relatively) few women there. Only long pants provide the total coverage of legs combined with freedom of movement. Short, looser skirts provide freedom of movement (but leave your legs exposed) and could get caught in machinery. Long skirts either impede freedom of movement, or the fabric can swing and get caught in machinery. Often occupational health and safety board is mandating that everyone wear long pants in industrial workplaces, but I've never heard them mandate everyone wear skirts for safety.

I know enough to know that this simply can't be true, and is more likely an example of a skewed experience. I'm not exactly a glass-half-full person. I don't want to foolishly set my expectations high, or even have them at all, but there has been progress, regardless how small it is, in the two decades that followed. This bashing conservatives have towards anything that doesn't conform to their own outdated values is nothing new. The backlash only seems "stronger" now because subversion individuals (like ourselves) are becoming more and more accepted into society, so the intolerance gets louder as a result.

Maybe you're right, but what bugs me the most is that society embraces and protects the right of a man to wear a skirt...but only if he identifies as female. What bugs me is that a woman suing a school/workplace for forcing her to wear skirts has a far higher probability of winning the lawsuit tha n a man suing a school/workplace for forcing him to wear pants/shorts.

[TSH]

The path for women in pants was far more deeper than just pants being "practical", which I'm sure everyone is already aware of. Pants aren't always "practical" though, and I'll argue skirts can actually be such — even more so than pants. For starters, it's just more "practical" (meaning it makes more sense) for men to wear skirts, because then men won't have to worry about any inseams. You're also missing that skirts tend to be more adaptable and are less likely to tear. Wearing what's more comfortable, which ties into my earlier point of the physiological reason skirts make sense, is in itself, more "practical" than just going by the norm of wearing pants, like most other men (though this can vary based on how much derision, should any mockery arises, when a men wears one, and how he'll respond to such attacks on his character because of it).

But it's true that pants can be justified on safety grounds while skirts can't. I've interned at a rocket engine test engineering facility. Everyone was required to wear long pants, including the (relatively) few women there. Only long pants provide the total coverage of legs combined with freedom of movement. Short, looser skirts provide freedom of movement (but leave your legs exposed) and could get caught in machinery. Long skirts either impede freedom of movement, or the fabric can swing and get caught in machinery. Often occupational health and safety board is mandating that everyone wear long pants in industrial workplaces, but I've never heard them mandate everyone wear skirts for safety.

While the safety argument is valid, I don't think it's the driving force for why women started wearing pants more often to the point of it being the norm. If such an argument could be made for MiS, I still don't think it would play a significant part in it being mainstream.

I know enough to know that this simply can't be true, and is more likely an example of a skewed experience. I'm not exactly a glass-half-full person. I don't want to foolishly set my expectations high, or even have them at all, but there has been progress, regardless how small it is, in the two decades that followed. This bashing conservatives have towards anything that doesn't conform to their own outdated values is nothing new. The backlash only seems "stronger" now because subversion individuals (like ourselves) are becoming more and more accepted into society, so the intolerance gets louder as a result.

Maybe you're right, but what bugs me the most is that society embraces and protects the right of a man to wear a skirt...but only if he identifies as female. What bugs me is that a woman suing a school/workplace for forcing her to wear skirts has a far higher probability of winning the lawsuit than a man suing a school/workplace for forcing him to wear pants/shorts.

It's these absurd double standards that made me give up on humanity a long time ago. It's a perfect reflection of our laziness — our unwillingness to look at our own flaws, and correct them. To be better people to one another. To be competent stewards of the planet. To go beyond our own limitations.

[Stu]

Great question. There are plenty of sites which exist for the trans community and crossdressers and that's fine - but they are not what we are primarily about (I hope!). To make skirts mainstream for men should be our goal here.

There has already been some successes. Mainstream manufacturers like H&M and Zara and even Adidas have dipped their toes in the men-in-skirts water, but I suspect the sales have been disappointing. Top end fashion designers have been dabbling in this for decades, but it comes in waves and then recedes for a while as the novelty wears off - and that's not mainstream. Even boys have had encouraging signs that there may be an alternative to the trousers/shorts tyranny with childrenswear designers claiming all their garments are "gender neutral" but, when it comes to showing dresses and skirts, they are modelled by girls (with the honourable exception ofprimary.com). Schools claim that their uniforms are gender neutral, but they do so as a ruse to get around equality laws knowing full well that boys are going to wear trousers and only trousers.

So where to go from here? Well, what we can do as a small community on here is somewhat limited, but here's an idea. Next time you buy a skirt you like, write a letter to the head office of the company which owns the store - telling them you are a cis-gendered man and not into crossdressing, but you spotted this particular garment and you couldn't resist buying it. And you love it - and your wife/partner agrees it looks great! Remind them that more men are wearing skirts these days and suggest to them that maybe they could market the garment, or a slightly modified version of it, for male customers. In doing so, they will be showing their commitment to equality and diversity etc while gaining positive publicity and perhaps tapping into a new market!

What happens when they receive your email or letter? They'll smile and ignore it. But then they get another letter from another - and then another - from different male customers saying something similar and eventually it might just occur to them there might be something to this worth exploring. Or they may not. But what is there to lose?

[denimini]

I personally don't care if skirts will ever be mainstream for men, they probably are not mainstream for women either now but women can still choose to wear them when they like .................. and so can we with few restrictions, which is all that matters. From my experience and observation; a person's ability to be themselves and be accepted and respected is improving, which means that eventually people can dress as they please.

There are many good reasons to wear a skirt, varying with each person, evidently strong enough reasons to warrant some to be brave and go against convention, which is a psychologically healthy pusuit for anyone.

It is always going to be restricting if we wait for something to become mainstream before we do it.

[crfriend]

It is always going to be restricting if we wait for something to become mainstream before we do it.

This will always be the case -- especially for "niche activities".

My main hope is that we can eventually do away with the fact that "skirt" == "woman" (or "woman wannabe"). And I feel we're losing ground on that to all the other parties here who want to retain that significance instead of letting adornment be adornment.

[jamie001]

There are men here on the Cafe that just want to wear skirts as an adornment and nothing more. There are also men here on the Cafe like me that wear skirts to add femininity to my feminine male persona and to feel relaxed in my own skin without being a crossdresser or attempting to deceive anyone into thinking that I’m a biological woman. I believe that both reasons are very valid and acceptable and that we should accept each other for who we are because we all love the same thing “skirts”!

Women have “boyfriend pants and other clothing’, why can’t designers create “girlfriend skirts” for men? The girlfriend skirts will be identical to women’s skirts in material, patterns, and colors, however they will be cut to better fit a man’s body. They could also create “girlfriend shoes for men” which would be identical to women’s shoes except that they would be available in larger sizes to fit men. There are some men here on the Cafe that like to wear women’s shoes with their skirts and have a problem finding the size that they need. I am lucky because I’m an 11 in women’s US sizes and most of the stores are now offering 11US or 12US in addition to smaller sizes, however there are some men that need even larger sizes.

[crfriend]

There are men here on the Cafe that just want to wear skirts as an adornment and nothing more. There are also men here on the Cafe like me that wear skirts to add femininity to my feminine male persona and to feel relaxed in my own skin[...]

This refers nicely to the "two camps" that have been referred to in the past -- and it dovetails perfectly with Stu's assertion of skirts-as-signifier. Most of us do not regard the skirt as a signifier of who or what we are (we wear them as fashion and style preferences); on the other hand, this post affirms that some do (who want to visually signify to others that they are "female" or want to be). All that does is transmit incoherent information to others in the real world that we all have to function in. Sadly, the two are incompatible with one another and work in opposition.

[Grok]

they probably are not mainstream for women either now but women can still choose to wear them when they like

Yeah, based on what I see, I would be inclined to say women have moved to a trouser based wardrobe. Except, leggings seem to be fairly common, much more so than skirts/dresses.

[LiuBang]

they probably are not mainstream for women either now

No, still very much mainstream during summers here in San Diego. Sure women in trousers outnumber skirts, but you'll still see plenty of skirted women. Heck, during summer 2022 I worked as a software developer in a left-leaning mid-sized Midwestern city where two of the three female software devs would wear skirts/dresses at least half the time in August. As in the type of dresses/skirts that women would wear to church on Easter.

[Mouse]

This refers nicely to the "two camps" that have been referred to in the past -- and it dovetails perfectly with Stu's assertion of skirts-as-signifier. Most of us do not regard the skirt as a signifier of who or what we are (we wear them as fashion and style preferences); on the other hand, this post affirms that some do (who want to visually signify to others that they are "female" or want to be). All that does is transmit incoherent information to others in the real world that we all have to function in. Sadly, the two are incompatible with one another and work in opposition.

I am confused as to which camp I am in then. Maybe you can tell me? I think my reasons are quite complex, but over 60 years I have found a combination of circumstances or as I term it space, to dress how I please. I am now very happy with my style and now I get to dress and live.

Any person I meet, male of female, who has made an effort to be different, I feel a connection with and ofter exchange a brief smile with when passing.

I find all of the members here interesting and fascinating from the kilt guys to the transitioned girls. I value them all and would love to meet any one of you all. Looking forward to BM's London meet on June 1st.

I think on the street there are three camps.... The largest is the "Can't be bothered" where people throw on something to be covered and warm. Then we have the "Oppressed camp" where people have to wear a certain style whether they are in a burka, suit or uniform. The final camp is the "Free Expression camp" where the interesting clothed people live and me. Obviously some people move between camps, which I also think is true of your two camps.

I am also disappointed when we fall out with each other. I know it is human nature, but we are all different and live in different circumstances. I have no problem if Jamie is feeling female. He is articulating his feelings which may be shared by others too timid to post. I also get other members point of view who just want to be a man in a skirt and not be linked to people in heels, nails and what ever else. I think the cafe has to be inclusive of all the fascinating members and let them each grow on their journey to happy place. We will have members who start with a skirt and keep going to they become their dream female. Others just want wear a skirt once a year on their birthday.

[denimini]

This refers nicely to the "two camps" that have been referred to in the past -- and it dovetails perfectly with Stu's assertion of skirts-as-signifier.

I think that there are as many camps as there are people. We are all individuals with unique histories, influences and genetics. If someone wants to summarise a major part of our peronality based on a single garment (as a signifier) then they will be wrong, something that is becoming common with social media and something we have no control over. Friends, family and work colleagues can ask if they want to understand more, so can strangers if they care to otherwise it does not matter what strangers think. It is no good castigating others who might wear a similar garment for different reasons as it is their right as much as us with the reasons we may wear that garment.

I am confused as to which camp I am in then. Maybe you can tell me? I think my reasons are quite complex, but over 60 years I have found a combination of circumstances or as I term it space, to dress how I please. I am now very happy with my style and now I get to dress and live.

You are no doubt in the Mouse camp ........... unique.

Perhaps Mouse and I are having easier experiences in wearing skirts in public, so I am sorry if I sound sanctimonious to others who are having difficulties.

[DrFishnets]

I originally started thinking about wearing skirts a few years ago when I started wearing leggings as I found it difficult looking for UK waist size 44 size trousers or jeans. I found leggings very comfortable and they made me feel good and I find it much more comfortable walking in them. The only problem was that the bulge of my man bits would show if I wasn’t wearing a long coat, long line shirt or long line t-shirt.

I found it difficult looking for long line shirts so I thought of wearing skirts. I had a black short pleated skirt that my partner bought me for a St Trinians sixth form girl outfit that I was making. I just recently wore it in public and felt good. I am a straight guy who has no wish to change my gender. I just like the look of skirts and other so called feminine clothing and I feel great wearing it. Hopefully this will catch on for other men but I’m not holding my breath.